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About 8 years ago, I was looking for new permanent employment. I was contacted by a recruiter that had a position with a niche company that served the scientific community with measurement devices. It was actually a good lateral slide, going from calibrating product A to calibrating product B, using some of the same methodology.

At the time, I happened to be contracting with a company that I'd worked for in the past, and one of my coworkers knew people at this niche company, both as long-time friends and by contracting with them for some small stuff in the past. In this regard, I already had an in with the company because he put me in touch with them and we talked beforehand, and he also gave them a "he's good people" mention.

I took their test, passed it 100% (would hope so!) and did really well at their interview. It was a fascinating product, developed by the (then, still alive) owner of the company. I was offered the job, but when I received the offer I turned it down.

They had offered me just a bit more than what I was making then, something like $500 a year. True, it was MORE, but the job I had then offered some things. We could reasonably expect a $1000 year-end bonus (sometimes more, one year it was $5000) and the company offered almost $2000 a year in HSA kickers. There was also the shorter commute and the fact that the insurance, however crappy, was paid almost 100% by the company. This new company didn't offer any of that, and you were expected to cover quite a decent percentage of insurance. (Don't know how they'd do that now, you couldn't.) It was a longer drive during normal business hours, and required going through some heavily congested areas. I told the recruiter it just wasn't enough, and that was that. There was no argument or anything, and looking back that tells me the recruiter knew there wasn't any wiggle room - it was what it was.

Today, on the way back from the Cincy Hamfest, I had that same person in the car with me as we go to shows all the time. We were talking about the job market in general, and he mentioned this particular place. He said the company was really unhappy that I didn't take the job, and that they were like that because I was the perfect fit of skills for what they needed. He told them straight up that it just wasn't enough money and that I made more than that. He said they did the "well shucks, that's what we pay to start" thing. He just said "yeah well that's why you didn't get him."

The moral of the story is that this simply confirms what we know about the job market. It's not a skills gap, it's a skills gap AT the price these companies want to pay. Perfect, can't live without you, but we're unwilling to pay you what the thing is worth.

(I know they eventually got someone because other positions in the area pay less, so someone did get an upgrade or just needed new work. No idea.)

About 8 years ago, I was looking for new permanent employment. I was contacted by a recruiter that had a position with a niche company that served the scientific community with measurement devices. It was actually a good lateral slide, going from calibrating product A to calibrating product B, using some of the same methodology. At the time, I happened to be contracting with a company that I'd worked for in the past, and one of my coworkers knew people at this niche company, both as long-time friends and by contracting with them for some small stuff in the past. In this regard, I already had an in with the company because he put me in touch with them and we talked beforehand, and he also gave them a "he's good people" mention. I took their test, passed it 100% (would hope so!) and did really well at their interview. It was a fascinating product, developed by the (then, still alive) owner of the company. I was offered the job, but when I received the offer I turned it down. They had offered me just a bit more than what I was making then, something like $500 a year. True, it was MORE, but the job I had then offered some things. We could reasonably expect a $1000 year-end bonus (sometimes more, one year it was $5000) and the company offered almost $2000 a year in HSA kickers. There was also the shorter commute and the fact that the insurance, however crappy, was paid almost 100% by the company. This new company didn't offer any of that, and you were expected to cover quite a decent percentage of insurance. (Don't know how they'd do that now, you couldn't.) It was a longer drive during normal business hours, and required going through some heavily congested areas. I told the recruiter it just wasn't enough, and that was that. There was no argument or anything, and looking back that tells me the recruiter knew there wasn't any wiggle room - it was what it was. Today, on the way back from the Cincy Hamfest, I had that same person in the car with me as we go to shows all the time. We were talking about the job market in general, and he mentioned this particular place. He said the company was really unhappy that I didn't take the job, and that they were like that because I was the perfect fit of skills for what they needed. He told them straight up that it just wasn't enough money and that I made more than that. He said they did the "well shucks, that's what we pay to start" thing. He just said "yeah well that's why you didn't get him." The moral of the story is that this simply confirms what we know about the job market. It's not a skills gap, it's a skills gap AT the price these companies want to pay. Perfect, can't live without you, but we're unwilling to pay you what the thing is worth. (I know they eventually got someone because other positions in the area pay less, so someone did get an upgrade or just needed new work. No idea.)

(post is archived)

[–] • 4 pts

I have quit jobs that had to pay two people double what I made (each) to replace me. I realized I was being taken advantage of (I was young but high-skill) and was pissed off. This was a good lesson and one of the best things I ever did or I would probably still be stuck in that crap job being paid less than people that I would have had to train to use the systems I designed and built.

This is one of the frustrations of working in the USA (not everywhere but it is too common). One of the only ways to get a good pay bump is to just go to some other company since where you are does not value you enough and are not willing to pay. I switched jobs once and made about 40% more WITH better benefits just because I was willing to commute a little further (this was long before remote started becoming more normal or the lockdowns).

I don't live to work, I work to live. I don't define myself based on my job or my title. I still work my ass off but I don't put up with bullshit anymore. I am right with you on turning that company down. They don't get to be pissy because they refused to pay what the job is worth. If you are "perfect for the job" then they should pay what it is worth. Not what they are hoping you will take since you are a new hire.

[–] • 3 pts

The bigger the corp the worse their decisions are when it comes to cost vs. quality.

[–] • 3 pts

They would rather hire 6 brain dead Indians than hire a single competent American for the same price (who can actually do the job).

[–] • 1 pt

This was a little tiny place, so they were already competing with the big girls for talent. They didn't seem to care.

[–] • 2 pts

One of the only ways to get a good pay bump is to just go to some other company...

Precisely this. I ran the highway design group at a regional office for nearly 10 years. We'd interview, weed out candidates, court a few and make offers to a couple promising engineers. Invariably when they hit 4 years of experience, they'd take their professional engineering exam, most would pass it, they'd get a nice bonus for doing so and then they'd move on to another firm in a couple months - because they didn't get a meaningful pay bump. In the mid 2000s a junior engineer would change jobs for a meager 10% salary increase.

Management made the point that just because staff obtained licensure it didn't make them magically more productive. I made the point that I spent inordinate amounts of time turning new graduates into productive employees - only for management to fail at retaining them. Believe it was my third iteration of the above conversation where they finally failed to retain me.

It was like talking to a brick wall.

[–] • 2 pts

"Admin" (Mgmt) is short sighted and focused only on THEIR bonus or pay increase. They get it by keeping costs low. Not by making the company better and more successful. Just more evidence that they are not needed at all.

[–] • 1 pt

It's really interesting the range of people and what they've done that post here.

[–] • 1 pt

Pretty much all I've got now are stories. The times, faces and particulars change, but the main themes never do. I heard stories of managerial ineptitude from my grandfather who worked as a stationary engineer and warehouse manager 75 years ago, and even better examples from my father who dealt with true corporate bullshit 40 years ago. Hiring and (lack of) retention have always been a thing. It wasn't nearly as bad as it is today say 60 years ago when "job hopping" and having short tenures on your resume were viewed in a negative light. Of course there was more loyalty on the part of employers then too. All that crap and old ethos got kicked to the curb in the 1990s. Coincidentally, it matches with the rise of the HR managers.

It's a free for all now.

[–] • 1 pt

I didn't take it.

The only reason it came up 8 years later is because friend happened to mention it. Just found it interesting that they were counting on me to take it.

Supplies!

[–] • 4 pts

I worked for a big IT company that started laying people off. They laid off my partner on a very [mathematically] complex project. I found another job and quit to avoid being laid off. They couldn’t get either of us back and they were fairly screwed. I guess they expected me to do the job of two people for the same pay, they ended up losing the contract for antics like that. Their downfall began about a year earlier when they hired a bunch of managers that knew nothing about IT, or software engineering. Those managers made cost cutting decisions that were incompatible with our product development and it all went down the shitter.

It was one of those places that had more managers than producers, so it was inevitable.

[–] • 2 pts

They want premium skills from premium people for peanuts pay, that's childish and it doesn't work like that. Hell even in videogames when you hire a top of the line guy you're expected to pay premium and no one argues with that. But in the real world everything is upside down retarded.

[–] • 0 pt

I've turned down a number of things over the years for this very reason.

[–] • 1 pt

the job mess is not easy to fix because

1 Government put LOTS of taxes + burden on self employed people 2 AI is pretending to do the work that could be done by people 3 Robots actually do the work that was done by people 4 Ultra rich people (normally jew) rig the system to make us slaves

solution ? let's start with - DUMP television (brain back online) - USE cash (less taxes) - TALK with people (raise awarness)