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Reason has its limits. You can't logic your way out of everything and you shouldn't be expected to do so.

I often see nutcases on the left say something like, "Not all opinions are valid. Some are evil and should not be allowed."

This is of course, completely insane. But that won't stop somebody from trying to "destroy them with logic". Waste of time. You can't reason with what somebody wants. They just want it. Islam wants to conquer the world and kill all the infidels. What logic could you possibly use to dissuade them? They don't care. Are you going to hand over your house and property because you couldn't articulate an argument against it?

The obsession with logic and reasoning is a relatively recent phenomenon. Most of human history had some form of religious system as the highest authority. Then in 1641, Descartes introduced Rationalism with his Meditations and taught us that we really can't KNOW anything except that we exist. This brought us into the Enlightenment and Evidentialism; empirical evidence and sound logical proofs. William Clifford famously declared in his Ethics of Belief that if a man has no evidence for his beliefs, then he ought not to have them.

However, this is overly simplistic and not truly representative of the human experience. It certainly has its place in the sciences and criminal justice, but nowhere else is it useful as a rule. William James would teach us in The Will to Believe that life is full of decisions that can't be fully justified with evidence. Reason is a tool to be used when appropriate, not as the supreme authority for every moment of our lives. Reason has obvious limits, such as emotions, desires, religion, etc.

It is at these limits where people are united and divided. And there is nothing that can reconcile them. An attempt to do so with logic would be using a tool that doesn't even exist in the realm where the problem is. The left wants to be able to kill babies and force every child to be a tranny stripper. The right doesn't want any of that to be allowed. There is no middle ground and neither side has perfectly rational reasons for their position (if we're strictly logical, wouldn't we have to admit that abortion is valid for preventing genetic disorders?). I typically see those on the right pride themselves on having superior logic in most of their arguments. Being the "conservatives" of a society that was founded during the Enlightenment, this only makes sense (even though they've conserved nothing but that's a different discussion). However, this pride in logic is often a trap. The right avoids irrational knee-jerk reactions, preferring to wait until the perfect logical counter-argument is constructed. Memes fly back and forth until the ultimate logic bomb emerges.

Don't get me wrong, I think this process is effective and hilarious. But it isn't essential and nobody is owed it. We should be allowed to say, "No, fuck you, pedophilia is wrong. We don't want it and we shouldn't have to explain ourselves." People might complain, "But then we're just like the left!" Well yeah, you are just like them. You're a human being, not a calculator. You have wants, desires, and a sense of right and wrong that you share with other people like you. These are your kinsmen and your nation. Everybody else is a foreigner and they don't "fit in". To say that foreigners deserve a voice or a vote in the fate of your people is, quite simply, retarded. Do I have a logical reason for believing this? No. But it's how we've done it for thousands of years and it works just fine.

Reason has its limits. You can't logic your way out of everything and you shouldn't be expected to do so. I often see nutcases on the left say something like, "Not all opinions are valid. Some are evil and should not be allowed." This is of course, completely insane. But that won't stop somebody from trying to "destroy them with logic". Waste of time. You can't reason with what somebody wants. They just want it. Islam wants to conquer the world and kill all the infidels. What logic could you possibly use to dissuade them? They don't care. Are you going to hand over your house and property because you couldn't articulate an argument against it? The obsession with logic and reasoning is a relatively recent phenomenon. Most of human history had some form of religious system as the highest authority. Then in 1641, Descartes introduced Rationalism with his *Meditations* and taught us that we really can't KNOW anything except that we exist. This brought us into the Enlightenment and Evidentialism; empirical evidence and sound logical proofs. William Clifford famously declared in his *Ethics of Belief* that if a man has no evidence for his beliefs, then he ought not to have them. However, this is overly simplistic and not truly representative of the human experience. It certainly has its place in the sciences and criminal justice, but nowhere else is it useful as a rule. William James would teach us in *The Will to Believe* that life is full of decisions that can't be fully justified with evidence. Reason is a tool to be used when appropriate, not as the supreme authority for every moment of our lives. Reason has obvious limits, such as emotions, desires, religion, etc. It is at these limits where people are united and divided. And there is nothing that can reconcile them. An attempt to do so with logic would be using a tool that doesn't even exist in the realm where the problem is. The left wants to be able to kill babies and force every child to be a tranny stripper. The right doesn't want any of that to be allowed. There is no middle ground and neither side has perfectly rational reasons for their position (if we're strictly logical, wouldn't we have to admit that abortion is valid for preventing genetic disorders?). I typically see those on the right pride themselves on having superior logic in most of their arguments. Being the "conservatives" of a society that was founded during the Enlightenment, this only makes sense (even though they've conserved nothing but that's a different discussion). However, this pride in logic is often a trap. The right avoids irrational knee-jerk reactions, preferring to wait until the perfect logical counter-argument is constructed. Memes fly back and forth until the ultimate logic bomb emerges. Don't get me wrong, I think this process is effective and hilarious. But it isn't essential and nobody is owed it. We should be allowed to say, "No, fuck you, pedophilia is wrong. We don't want it and we shouldn't have to explain ourselves." People might complain, "But then we're just like the left!" Well yeah, you are just like them. You're a human being, not a calculator. You have wants, desires, and a sense of right and wrong that you share with other people like you. These are your kinsmen and your nation. Everybody else is a foreigner and they don't "fit in". To say that foreigners deserve a voice or a vote in the fate of your people is, quite simply, retarded. Do I have a logical reason for believing this? No. But it's how we've done it for thousands of years and it works just fine.

(post is archived)

[–] [deleted] 2 pts

I can't say you're wrong...but...how can a logical creature make itself think and act illogically? I agree that some cases won't be won unless you can become your enemy to a point. But with that you also run the risk of becoming what you're fighting against.

I'm not presenting an answer and I understand that.

Refer to my comm,ent in this thread. U hav 2 piuc and chosos when lofical actions are actually useful nibba. Your instincts are not ur enemy.

[–] 0 pt

No worries. What do you mean by "logical creature"? What would be an example of one?

I'm not quite sure that "becoming the enemy" is how I would put it. There are natural laws that demand a certain level of cruelty in order to survive. For example, if you can't get past the idea of killing plants and animals for food you will be dead in short order. But that doesn't mean you have to be a blood thirsty death machine to survive. There's a balance. And we have strayed from it