Scoundrels [500x599 - 84KB] | Poal: Say what you want.

(post is archived)

You are currently inside a comment thread.

[–] • 3 pts

I'm looking into it right now, there are people hell bent on labelling voltaire as antisemite et others hell bent on saying the contrary lol https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Voltaire/Archive_2#Voltaire_l'esclavagisme,_le_racisme_et_l'antis%C3%A9mitisme

Quick translate

Voltaire slavery, racism and anti-Semitism you write that Voltaire strongly condemned slavery and you quote Candide. however, he does not denounce slavery there but the mutilations made to slaves, nuance! in Etudes des moeurs and Traite de metaphysique, there are racist and negrophobic passages. why does it not appear in the final article in the same way as his anti-Semitic remarks?

Go read the archives, it's a long debate (I believe that it is among other things because of this voluminous debate that it was necessary to archive). The debate revolves around the importance that must be given to the fact that Voltaire is probably a racist, but with a less sustained racism on certain points than that of his contemporaries. For example, by denouncing the mistreatment of slaves, Voltaire would have put us on the path to another consideration of the peoples reduced to slavery, a path that would lead to the abolition of slavery (idealistic and glorifying formulation just for the demonstration). The current article tries as best it can to present this aspect: the avant-garde ideas of yesterday are reactionary thoughts today. By not realizing it, we would never pay homage to those who have changed thought.

Lacrimocéphale January 1, 2008 at 23:17 (CET)

I don't understand this relentlessness in denying that Voltaire was an anti-Semite, as we understand it in any dictionary. It is retorted that the word having been invented in the 19th century, Voltaire could not be what did not exist then. But we don't care about intelligence here! Just read what Voltaire wrote about the Jews, and compare his nauseating soup with the very definition of the word anti-Semitism. Because the sire speaks of nation and people: we are therefore well beyond an anti-Judaism that some editors would like to minimize or even make sympathetic. Let those who know how to read read this anthology of tolerance and an enlightened mind:

It results from this shortened table that the Hebrews have almost always been either wanderers, or brigands, or slaves, or seditious: they are still vagabonds today on the earth, and in horror to men, assuring that heaven and earth , and all men, were created for them alone.
As [the Jews] knew no people but their neighbors, they believed in abhorring them that they hated the whole earth, and thus accustomed themselves to being the enemies of all men.
Finally you find [in the Jews] only an ignorant and barbarous people, who have long joined the most sordid avarice to the most detestable superstition and the most invincible hatred for all the peoples who tolerate them and who enrich them.
Do you want to live peacefully, imitate the Banians and the Guèbres; they are much older than you, they are scattered like you, they are homeless like you. The Guèbres especially who are the ancient Persians, are slaves like you after having been your masters for a long time. They don't say a word; take this part. You are calculating animals; try to be thinking animals. in Philosophical Dictionary, Jews, and seventh letter MM. Joseph Ben Jonathan, Aaron Mathai, and David Wincker
I only reluctantly cite this unfortunate little Jewish people, who should certainly not serve as a rule for anyone, and who (putting religion aside) were never anything but a people of ignorant and fanatical brigands. in Philosophical dictionary, Natural law
It is with regret that I speak of the Jews: this nation is, in many respects, the most detestable that has ever defiled the earth. in Philosophical Dictionary, Tolerance
There were in Spain more than one hundred and fifty thousand men of this foreign [Jewish] nation so odious and so necessary.
The Jews alone are in horror to all the peoples among whom they are admitted.
But at all times the Jews have disfigured the truth by absurd fables; they implemented false medals, false inscriptions. This species of deceit, joined to the other more essential ones with which they were reproached, contributed not a little to their disgrace. Essay on the customs and spirit of nations, chap. CII. — State of Europe at the end of the fifteenth century.
When [the eyes of the Jews] were a little opened by other victorious nations, who taught them that the world was greater than they believed, they found themselves, by their very law, natural enemies of these nations, and finally of the human race.
[the Jews] were therefore rightly treated as a nation opposed in everything to the others; serving them out of avarice, hating them out of fanaticism, making usury a sacred duty. And these are our fathers! In Essay on the manners and spirit of nations, chap. CIII — On the state of the Jews in Europe.

We are not the ones who accuse Voltaire of forged documents or gossip: he took it upon himself to write his own charge in his own hand at the same time as the exhibits.

Hoping not to break anything of the presentation. On Voltaire's racism, we can recall that he thought that blacks and whites could not have the same origin, like two different trees. (dsl, I no longer have my source, a study book on the anthropo of qqs thinkers). We can bet that more interested in polemics than in biological science, he was opposed to Maupertuis or others in their affirmation of the monogenism of the human being in order to break them really small with the doctrine of the Church and the text of the Genesis. (do not hesitate to fire this thing if it sucks, I will not be offended, especially as an anonymous person, you have to go there to dare to complain)

p-s: Otherwise, maybe Voltaire must have had some trouble with a people who identify with a religion, and the Jews must have fallen for him. (afterwards we had to exclude them from society at least as much as they united, I don't know anything about it, I'm looking for a point of view). In any case, I find the text Brolingbroke tasty, to read in his life with Dostoyevsky, it balances. Similarly, if you are a little disappointed with the lack of defense of Jewish thought, it is better to read Levinas (or author very well marked by Judaism, me apart from known names I know nothing about it) than to get angry on Voltaire. In short, the search for Truth is for priests, that of objectivity for Wikipedia, and playing the little judge, for those who have too much time to lose; looking for adversaries in the past, when no one is actually leaning on them to say dangerous things now, may be a waste of time. (confession: I would rather be on the side of those who will defend it against all odds, because at one point, a breath of freedom rose, and there is a lot to do with it, a little lyricism to show that I am moved)

I'm looking into it right now, there are people hell bent on labelling voltaire as antisemite et others hell bent on saying the contrary lol https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Voltaire/Archive_2#Voltaire_l'esclavagisme,_le_racisme_et_l'antis%C3%A9mitisme Quick translate Voltaire slavery, racism and anti-Semitism you write that Voltaire strongly condemned slavery and you quote Candide. however, he does not denounce slavery there but the mutilations made to slaves, nuance! in Etudes des moeurs and Traite de metaphysique, there are racist and negrophobic passages. why does it not appear in the final article in the same way as his anti-Semitic remarks? Go read the archives, it's a long debate (I believe that it is among other things because of this voluminous debate that it was necessary to archive). The debate revolves around the importance that must be given to the fact that Voltaire is probably a racist, but with a less sustained racism on certain points than that of his contemporaries. For example, by denouncing the mistreatment of slaves, Voltaire would have put us on the path to another consideration of the peoples reduced to slavery, a path that would lead to the abolition of slavery (idealistic and glorifying formulation just for the demonstration). The current article tries as best it can to present this aspect: the avant-garde ideas of yesterday are reactionary thoughts today. By not realizing it, we would never pay homage to those who have changed thought. Lacrimocéphale January 1, 2008 at 23:17 (CET) I don't understand this relentlessness in denying that Voltaire was an anti-Semite, as we understand it in any dictionary. It is retorted that the word having been invented in the 19th century, Voltaire could not be what did not exist then. But we don't care about intelligence here! Just read what Voltaire wrote about the Jews, and compare his nauseating soup with the very definition of the word anti-Semitism. Because the sire speaks of nation and people: we are therefore well beyond an anti-Judaism that some editors would like to minimize or even make sympathetic. Let those who know how to read read this anthology of tolerance and an enlightened mind: - It results from this shortened table that the Hebrews have almost always been either wanderers, or brigands, or slaves, or seditious: they are still vagabonds today on the earth, and in horror to men, assuring that heaven and earth , and all men, were created for them alone. - As [the Jews] knew no people but their neighbors, they believed in abhorring them that they hated the whole earth, and thus accustomed themselves to being the enemies of all men. - Finally you find [in the Jews] only an ignorant and barbarous people, who have long joined the most sordid avarice to the most detestable superstition and the most invincible hatred for all the peoples who tolerate them and who enrich them. - Do you want to live peacefully, imitate the Banians and the Guèbres; they are much older than you, they are scattered like you, they are homeless like you. The Guèbres especially who are the ancient Persians, are slaves like you after having been your masters for a long time. They don't say a word; take this part. You are calculating animals; try to be thinking animals. in Philosophical Dictionary, Jews, and seventh letter MM. Joseph Ben Jonathan, Aaron Mathai, and David Wincker - I only reluctantly cite this unfortunate little Jewish people, who should certainly not serve as a rule for anyone, and who (putting religion aside) were never anything but a people of ignorant and fanatical brigands. in Philosophical dictionary, Natural law - It is with regret that I speak of the Jews: this nation is, in many respects, the most detestable that has ever defiled the earth. in Philosophical Dictionary, Tolerance - There were in Spain more than one hundred and fifty thousand men of this foreign [Jewish] nation so odious and so necessary. - The Jews alone are in horror to all the peoples among whom they are admitted. - But at all times the Jews have disfigured the truth by absurd fables; they implemented false medals, false inscriptions. This species of deceit, joined to the other more essential ones with which they were reproached, contributed not a little to their disgrace. Essay on the customs and spirit of nations, chap. CII. — State of Europe at the end of the fifteenth century. - When [the eyes of the Jews] were a little opened by other victorious nations, who taught them that the world was greater than they believed, they found themselves, by their very law, natural enemies of these nations, and finally of the human race. - [the Jews] were therefore rightly treated as a nation opposed in everything to the others; serving them out of avarice, hating them out of fanaticism, making usury a sacred duty. And these are our fathers! In Essay on the manners and spirit of nations, chap. CIII — On the state of the Jews in Europe. We are not the ones who accuse Voltaire of forged documents or gossip: he took it upon himself to write his own charge in his own hand at the same time as the exhibits. Hoping not to break anything of the presentation. On Voltaire's racism, we can recall that he thought that blacks and whites could not have the same origin, like two different trees. (dsl, I no longer have my source, a study book on the anthropo of qqs thinkers). We can bet that more interested in polemics than in biological science, he was opposed to Maupertuis or others in their affirmation of the monogenism of the human being in order to break them really small with the doctrine of the Church and the text of the Genesis. (do not hesitate to fire this thing if it sucks, I will not be offended, especially as an anonymous person, you have to go there to dare to complain) p-s: Otherwise, maybe Voltaire must have had some trouble with a people who identify with a religion, and the Jews must have fallen for him. (afterwards we had to exclude them from society at least as much as they united, I don't know anything about it, I'm looking for a point of view). In any case, I find the text Brolingbroke tasty, to read in his life with Dostoyevsky, it balances. Similarly, if you are a little disappointed with the lack of defense of Jewish thought, it is better to read Levinas (or author very well marked by Judaism, me apart from known names I know nothing about it) than to get angry on Voltaire. In short, the search for Truth is for priests, that of objectivity for Wikipedia, and playing the little judge, for those who have too much time to lose; looking for adversaries in the past, when no one is actually leaning on them to say dangerous things now, may be a waste of time. (confession: I would rather be on the side of those who will defend it against all odds, because at one point, a breath of freedom rose, and there is a lot to do with it, a little lyricism to show that I am moved)