Debating the Degeneracy of Porn | Poal: Say what you want.

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We begin with the assumption that all things are neither degenerate or virtuous until proven one way or the other.

Ok...

Now, to decide if the use of porn is degenerate or virtuous, we must define these words...I propose the following objective: having fallen below a desirable level of moral qualities. Virtuous is defined as "conforming to moral and ethical principles; morally excellent; upright."

I'm a little unclear...but you're saying that the definition you're using for “degenerate” is

having fallen below a desirable level of moral qualities.

and virtuous is

conforming to moral and ethical principles; morally excellent; upright.

If incorrect, please clarify.

I'll be using virtues/moral qualities interchangeably.

If being virtuous means being both moral and ethical then how can they be synonyms? By your definition, being moral is a prerequisite for being virtuous. One that is virtuous must, by definition, also be moral. But one who is moral may not necessarily be virtuous.

So, what are these virtues that the use of porn may not conform to? From here: https://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html the use of porn may interfere with: 1. Chastity - Purity in conduct and intention. 2. Discipline - The trait of being well behaved and under control. 3. Restraint - Holding Back. 4. Purity - Freedom from defilement. Undiluted or unmixed with extraneous material. Unsullied by sin or moral wrong. 5. Some others may apply. Subjective to the individual.

Ok so using porn “may” not conform to this particular list of virtues. Got it.

My Conclusion: The use of porn is degenerate ONLY IF you want to possess these virtues. The "only if" contingency comes from the word "desirable" in our definition. Essentially, if I value chastity, discipline, restraint, and purity, but I use porn, then my using porn is degenerate.

The use of “may” suggests that it's not a definite result. Using porn may affect your pursuit of those virtues...or it may not.

Right at the top you state

that all things are neither degenerate or virtuous until proven one way or the other.

Where have you shown that using porn is, in fact, degenerate? You define degenerate and showed a list of virtues but do not explain how using porn is degenerate or how it may negatively affect the pursuit of those virtues.

Is it because its used as a self-pleasure aide? Is the problem masturbation? To go after a tool used to achieve a goal is like blaming guns for school shootings. Unless what you're suggesting is that one can be both virtuous and masturbate as long as you don't use porn? Is that correct?

What if I'm using pornographic images in an art display? What about actors/actresses, directors & cameramen in the porn industry? Convention centers rented out to porn conventions? Are people using porn to earn a living, by your definition, degenerates?

>We begin with the assumption that all things are neither degenerate or virtuous until proven one way or the other. Ok... >Now, to decide if the use of porn is degenerate or virtuous, we must define these words...I propose the following objective: having fallen below a desirable level of moral qualities. Virtuous is defined as "conforming to moral and ethical principles; morally excellent; upright." I'm a little unclear...but you're saying that the definition you're using for “degenerate” is >having fallen below a desirable level of moral qualities. and virtuous is >conforming to moral and ethical principles; morally excellent; upright. If incorrect, please clarify. >I'll be using virtues/moral qualities interchangeably. If being virtuous means being both moral *and* ethical then how can they be synonyms? By your definition, being moral is a prerequisite for being virtuous. One that is virtuous must, by definition, also be moral. But one who is moral may not necessarily be virtuous. >So, what are these virtues that the use of porn may not conform to? From here: https://www.virtuescience.com/virtuelist.html the use of porn may interfere with: 1. **Chastity** - Purity in conduct and intention. 2. **Discipline** - The trait of being well behaved and under control. 3. **Restraint** - Holding Back. 4. **Purity** - Freedom from defilement. Undiluted or unmixed with extraneous material. Unsullied by sin or moral wrong. 5. Some others may apply. Subjective to the individual. Ok so using porn “may” not conform to this particular list of virtues. Got it. >My **Conclusion: The use of porn is degenerate ONLY IF you want to possess these virtues.** The "only if" contingency comes from the word "desirable" in our definition. Essentially, if I value chastity, discipline, restraint, and purity, but I use porn, then my using porn is degenerate. The use of “may” suggests that it's not a definite result. Using porn may affect your pursuit of those virtues...or it may not. Right at the top you state >that all things are neither degenerate or virtuous until proven one way or the other. Where have you shown that using porn is, in fact, degenerate? You define degenerate and showed a list of virtues but do not explain how using porn *is* degenerate or how it *may* negatively affect the pursuit of those virtues. Is it because its used as a self-pleasure aide? Is the problem masturbation? To go after a tool used to achieve a goal is like blaming guns for school shootings. Unless what you're suggesting is that one can be both virtuous and masturbate as long as you don't use porn? Is that correct? What if I'm using pornographic images in an art display? What about actors/actresses, directors & cameramen in the porn industry? Convention centers rented out to porn conventions? Are people *using porn* to earn a living, by your definition, degenerates?

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