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Plato had some very good arguments against democracy that everyone today just seems to ignore. I particularly like the sweet shop owner versus the doctor parable he used. But the problem with the “good monarch” idea is that once you accept the concept of the divine right of kings you’re not guaranteed good monarchs. Look at Rome where they had nearly a century of good times under the five good emperors, but then they got Commodus. There’s also the problem with transfers of power in monarchies - because governments are regularly changed in democracies you don’t end up with the regular civil wars every time a monarch falls off their perch and the pretenders to the crown spend possibly decades fighting over succession. That kind of instability is good for nobody, and can occur no matter how stable things were when the monarch was still alive. The Mongolian empire is an example of how even when you manage to avoid civil conflict succession can be ruinous in monarchies, because the monarch was the empire made flesh when they were alive.
But the problem with the “good monarch” idea is that once you accept the concept of the divine right of kings you’re not guaranteed good monarchs.
I agree, but that's my point, you're not guaranteed good ministers either. So why is democracy better?
Look at Rome where they had nearly a century of good times under the five good emperors, but then they got Commodus.
Honestly, Rome was fucked before they even hit the empire. The caesars were able to take power because the place had become a corrupt mess. Democracy or dictatorship... didn't really matter. Whoever wanted power was going to buy it and abuse it. The romans didn't care so long as they got their gibs.
There’s also the problem with transfers of power in monarchies - because governments are regularly changed in democracies you don’t end up with the regular civil wars every time a monarch falls off their perch and the pretenders to the crown spend possibly decades fighting over succession.
Is there more of a problem with transfer of power in monarchies than democracies? I can think of plenty of democracies where the incumbant decided "fuck elections, I like this chair." Monarchism in europe lasted for thousands of years and most transitions were peaceful.
No you’re not guaranteed good ministers, but you can change ministers more regularly than you can monarchs who tend to rule for life.
Ha, I kind of like that about Rome though. People back then were least honest about their rampant corruption and lust for power. But you can’t deny life for the people in the empire era was greatly impacted by the quality of monarch they had. Life under Augustus was incomparable with life under Caligula for the man on the street. And again, if Caligula had just been consul rather than emperor they’d have only had to suffer him for one year. But then they’d only have gotten to enjoy Augustus for a year too, so positives and negatives.
Certainly transfers of power aren’t always peaceful in democracies. When FF took power in 1936 their deputies were said to have been armed when they entered the Dail in case the transfer was resisted. I think the American solution of having a military loyal to constitutional documents rather than any individuals or even offices of government is a good way to deal with this, but still far from perfect. I would still say transfers of power are more efficient in democracies though because you need bad actors to interfere, whereas all it takes is a childless monarch and some genuine confusion about succession to spark civil conflict and thus instability in a monarchy.
There are certainly problems with democracy, but to go back to the sweet shop owner and doctor parable the problem seems to be with the demos side of things rather than the kratos side. Letting every 18 year old, or every dole sponging moron have a say in how a country is governed probably isn’t a great idea. I don’t think even Plato thought we’d be letting children vote when he used the sweet shop owner to make his point!
No you’re not guaranteed good ministers, but you can change ministers more regularly than you can monarchs who tend to rule for life.
Which goes both ways. If you get a good one they're gone just as quick and you're back to the usual babykissing sellouts.
Ha, I kind of like that about Rome though. People back then were least honest about their rampant corruption and lust for power.
In general, when people are honest about corruption it's because there's no consequences. We're already seeing that happening in the west.
But you can’t deny life for the people in the empire era was greatly impacted by the quality of monarch they had. Life under Augustus was incomparable with life under Caligula for the man on the street. And again, if Caligula had just been consul rather than emperor they’d have only had to suffer him for one year. But then they’d only have gotten to enjoy Augustus for a year too, so positives and negatives.
Technically only half a year, plus there were a bunch of limitations governing consuls. The real meat of the republic though was that the average citizen was actively involved in politics and personally responsible for defending the state. That wasn't the case in the empire, people took what they got and what they got was typically hyperinflation and exorbitant taxes.
There are certainly problems with democracy, but to go back to the sweet shop owner and doctor parable the problem seems to be with the demos side of things rather than the kratos side. Letting every 18 year old, or every dole sponging moron have a say in how a country is governed probably isn’t a great idea. I don’t think even Plato thought we’d be letting children vote when he used the sweet shop owner to make his point!
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Although I think back then 18 year olds were allowed to vote provided they were eligable for military service.
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