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I’ve wrestled with this for a while, just want to see what you guys think.

We’re commanded to forgive as God has forgiven. Ok, fair enough. Seems a simple concept at face value.

But when you really dig in, what does that mean?

Most Christians say that forgiveness is something you do, regardless of whether the offending party confesses, apologizes, or repents.

But then look at how God operates. He requires confession and repentance for forgiveness. Neither is optional.

So then, God holds us to a higher standard than even himself in this regard?

That doesn’t seem logical or reasonable to me. But hey, perhaps I’m wrong. I’m just thinking nakedly here.

I’ve also heard a pastor say that forgiving someone - regardless of a confession or apology - allows God to take up your case. The analogy being that in a court of law, it’s better to let the judge take up the case than to take it up yourself. Ok, I can see the logic in that, too.

But I’m still flummoxed by the idea that we are held to a higher standard than God holds for himself. Again, he requires confession and repentance for forgiveness.

I’ve wrestled with this for a while, just want to see what you guys think. We’re commanded to forgive as God has forgiven. Ok, fair enough. Seems a simple concept at face value. But when you really dig in, what does that mean? Most Christians say that forgiveness is something you do, regardless of whether the offending party confesses, apologizes, or repents. But then look at how God operates. He *requires* confession and repentance for forgiveness. Neither is optional. So then, God holds us to a higher standard than even himself in this regard? That doesn’t seem logical or reasonable to me. But hey, perhaps I’m wrong. I’m just thinking nakedly here. I’ve also heard a pastor say that forgiving someone - regardless of a confession or apology - allows God to take up your case. The analogy being that in a court of law, it’s better to let the judge take up the case than to take it up yourself. Ok, I can see the logic in that, too. But I’m still flummoxed by the idea that we are held to a higher standard than God holds for himself. Again, he *requires* confession and repentance for forgiveness.

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[–] • 2 pts

God does not hate all of us. Quite the opposite.

And no, it’s not pleasant forgiving someone who never apologized. It’s one of the most unpleasant things ever. So unpleasant, in fact, that not even God himself will do it.

[–] • 0 pt

Explain to me how God loves us.

Or don't, because I've got an extremely unpleasant answer you might not want to hear.

[–] • 1 pt

God loves us as he loves himself, because we are all a part of him. That does not mean that God is going to always do exactly what you, puny human, may think you want him to do.

[–] • 0 pt

God Hates us like he hates himself.

He created the Universe and allowed the existence of suffering.

And I don't want anything from him.

What I want is Good, and achievable.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

Explain to me how God loves us.

Gods wanted a family. He wanted a family of those who, like him, have free will. Ie, the capability to choose good or evil.

He could have very well made us as biological robots instead. But then how could there be true love between a robot and it’s creator? Robots can’t love because they don’t have a choice, and love is a choice.

So you can only have love if free will is a component. But the downside to that is that with free will, bad choices can be made..resulting in suffering.

It’s not that “God allows suffering”. God has no right to intervene in earthly affairs unless and until someone with a belly button gives him permission and asks. You know why? Because of what he said in the beginning: “I give YOU (man) dominion over the earth, animals, etc. etc.”

Since God cannot lie, he will not go back on the word that was spoken. The word even says that “he holds his word above his own name” to emphasize this characteristic. A being so powerful that his words create and destroy must be careful in what he says. His words cannot contradict, nor can his actions otherwise. He is bound by his words because of this fact.

So, that’s why there is suffering in the world. Because the first two humans fucked it all up and turned their authority over to an unemployed cherub in the garden.

The proof that god loves you? Despite what humans have done, he still desires relationship with us.. so in order to redeem us, he sacrificed himself on our behalf.

You’re just mad about life and taking it out on him. I don’t say that judgmentally, I’ve been there myself. I was there for a long time, actually. But that isn’t going to help your situation, brother. You need to direct your anger in the appropriate place: against the unemployed cherub in the garden.

There’s a war going on since before either of us were born. It’s binary, there are two sides. Choose one. You can fight against the asshole who has made everyone’s lives tough to varying degrees, and side with the one who is going to win. Or not. It’s kind of that simple, despite the complexity of everything.