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246

My pastor was talking about judas today, and part of me always had some questions about judas betraying jesus

why did the romans even need judas in the first place? per the book of mathew, mark or luke, it's not like jesus was a very hard guy to find, and he wasn't trying to be subtle either, so then why bother doing a whole charade of finding him in the woods?

even assuming judas was needed, why would judas care to sell out jesus for so little? so he sold out jesus than killed himself? not only that, judas dies a few different ways based off a few books (strangulation by hanging, intestinal spillage), so im not entirely too clear how he even dies

jesus mentions that he who dips his hand in the bread will betray me, implying jesus already knew someone there would betray him. but beyond this, if judas did killl himself, it seems like judas was wrongly lead into a situation that got way out of hand, compared to what he was told, and the grief made him kill himself

part of my theory, is that jesus lead judas to turn jesus in, to fulfill the resurrection prophecy, didn't think the romans would go on to actually crucify him, and then the severe guilt of everything that transpired turned judas to kill himself, after seeing the plan go horribly wrong. on the other hand, it could also be that it happened completely that way, and the missing holes aren't that big a deal

My pastor was talking about judas today, and part of me always had some questions about judas betraying jesus why did the romans even need judas in the first place? per the book of mathew, mark or luke, it's not like jesus was a very hard guy to find, and he wasn't trying to be subtle either, so then why bother doing a whole charade of finding him in the woods? even assuming judas was needed, why would judas care to sell out jesus for so little? so he sold out jesus than killed himself? not only that, judas dies a few different ways based off a few books (strangulation by hanging, intestinal spillage), so im not entirely too clear how he even dies jesus mentions that he who dips his hand in the bread will betray me, implying jesus already knew someone there would betray him. but beyond this, if judas did killl himself, it seems like judas was wrongly lead into a situation that got way out of hand, compared to what he was told, and the grief made him kill himself part of my theory, is that jesus lead judas to turn jesus in, to fulfill the resurrection prophecy, didn't think the romans would go on to actually crucify him, and then the severe guilt of everything that transpired turned judas to kill himself, after seeing the plan go horribly wrong. on the other hand, it could also be that it happened completely that way, and the missing holes aren't that big a deal

(post is archived)

[–] • 4 pts (edited )

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Timothy 6:10

and,

Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. John 12:4-6

and,

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money. And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude. Luke 22:3-6

Judas loved money and served his god, Mammon unto death.

(strangulation by hanging, intestinal spillage), so im not entirely too clear how he even dies

Hanged himself, rope broke, bloated body bursts, intestinal spillage etc.

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

But if Jesus was already famous, why go through all these measures? Why not just nab him when no one was looking? Or would that have caused too many riots?

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

But if Jesus was already famous, why go through all these measures? Why not just nab him when no one was looking? Or would that have caused too many riots?

To make an example of him, the guy kind of started a brawl in the temple, the money changers' HQ...

https://biblehub.com/john/2-15.htm

15So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those selling doves He said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!”

https://biblehub.com/context/matthew/21-12.htm

12And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13And He said to them, “It is written, ‘MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER’; but you are making it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”

Imagine the scene... In what was the equivalent of a middle eastern open market during antiquity... It went a tad physical and I don't think everybody was like "Oh well, my stuffs and my shekels are on the ground now... Well that's too bad, I guess today is not my lucky day..." No. He certainly met some resistance and they still got kicked out

https://pic8.co/sh/KXIdCX.jpeg

https://youtu.be/g6FYLZouuMY?t=24

And the story doesn't stop there https://biblehub.com/context/matthew/21-12.htm

14And the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them. 15But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He had done, and the children who were shouting in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they became indignant 16and said to Him, “Do You hear what these children are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read, ‘OUT OF THE MOUTH OF INFANTS AND NURSING BABIES YOU HAVE PREPARED PRAISE FOR YOURSELF’?” 17And He left them and went out of the city to Bethany, and spent the night there.

...

So, from a priest class/TPTB standpoint... "This guy has to go!" and you want to make sure everybody gets the message; "this is what happens to those who fuck with us. Who wants some?"

That's how I see it

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

Kikes and their devious ways. I don't know why the pharisees and sadduccees felt the need to operate covertly except that they were kikes. But it does fulfill prophecy about Jesus being betrayed. And it certainly hilights the evil that can come from the worship of money. Nobody was tricking or twisting Judas's arm.

[–] • 1 pt

I don't know why the pharisees and sadduccees felt the need to operate covertly

They didn’t have the support of the average person to the degree they they could do it openly. Most people who came across Jesus or heard of him, thought he was awesome. They are pretty much the only ones who didn’t think he was awesome, and that was largely because he embarrassed them and they considered him competition.

So, they schemed to get Rome to do their dirty work. And even Pilate begrudgingly did it because even he knew that Jesus was awesome.

[–] [deleted] • 1 pt

Part of the confusion i think is that i cant for the life of me understand kikes and their crap customs and procedures, because its like trying to shine a light down a well, all you see is more darkness. And when you think you see something, its just more water rats and slime

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

All, if not most, of the disciples believed that Jesus was there to do two main things: A) take kingship over the Israelites and B) lead a revolution against the Roman occupation.

Their expectation was that both of these things being exclusively in the physical or natural realm.

They did not understand - even up to the point of the crucifixion - that Jesus had been speaking of a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one at the time. I say “at the time” because the physical kingdom is to come at the end if you read the Bible.

Judas, from the day that he became a disciple, was what the Bible calls a “zealot”, which means a revolutionary. He wasn’t the only disciple who was a revolutionary, either. If I recall correctly, Simon (Peter) also started out as a zealot. I think there were a few more, but it doesn’t matter and I’m not going to look it up.

So, once Judas realized that Jesus wasn’t interested in physically overthrowing Rome, he became disenchanted with Jesus. The Bible actually says that “Satan entered into him” at the moment he left the table and set out to snitch on Jesus. So he had a purely fleshly view of the situation and Satan took advantage of this. Judas was arguably a shady character anyhow, I believe the Bible also speaks of him stealing from the treasury.. in other words, the offerings people gave that kept Jesus and crew going, he stole from it.

Revolution was paramount in the minds of the Jews. The man that they decided to release instead of Jesus (I believe his name was Barabbas) was labeled a “murderer” in the Bible. I believe that he was also a zealot and had killed some Romans, so naturally the Jews felt he was more worthy to be released since he was actually interested in a revolution against the Romans. That, plus the religious system (Pharisees) hated Jesus anyhow since they saw him as competition and he was messing up their monopoly over the people’s hearts and minds…not to mention their corrupt gravy train (recall Jesus hitting them with a whip and flipping over their tables at the temple, kicking them out for their corruption).

It wasn’t until after Jesus rose again that any of the disciples started to “get it.” Which you couldn’t really blame them, I doubt I would have “gotten it”, either up to that point. And then Pentecost sealed the deal when as promised, “another like me” came unto them after Jesus left.

I’m spitballing here, but I highly doubt that any of them really even truly “got it” until the Holy Spirit came upon them that day. I don’t know if you’ve ever had a true Holy Spirit visitation, but I have, and I can tell you it is surreal.

All sorts of stuff gets downloaded to you faster than light…like terabytes of information..it’s wild. Clearly supernatural. When the Bible says “the Holy Spirit will reveal”, it means exactly what it says, though it is vastly understated what actually happens to you when this happens.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

Judas did not betray Jesus. It's a flat out lie that he did. Judas did exactly what Jesus told him to do. Jesus loved Judas more than any other disciple. That's why Jesus entrusted him to take word to the Jewish priests at the Temple about where Jesus was, so that they could arrest him. Jesus wanted to be arrested, tortured and crucified. He saw himself as the sacrificial lamb who was going to redeem humanity's sins. That's why he allowed himself to be arrested so easily.

All this is crystal clear in the gospels, if you just read them without preconceptions.

Why did Judas kill himself? Because he never believed that Jesus would suffer and die. Judas believed Jesus to be God incarnate. Jesus told him there was nothing to worry about, God the Father would never allow anything bad to happen to him. So Judas followed the direct explicit instructions of Jesus to the letter, pretended to the priests to betray him, and then watched expecting God the Father to intevene and save Jesus from death. When this didn't happen, Judas became consumed with guilt. He realized what he had done, only when it was too late. He threw the money back at the priests and hanged himself.

But Judas was the most faithful disciple of all. He never betrayed Jesus in any respect, in any way. Judas loved Jesus. It was because Judas loved him that Jesus knew he could be trusted to carry out his orders, and betray his location to the priests. Jesus gave the most important assignment to Judas, his most beloved, and Judas did not fail him.

[–] • 1 pt

and then it says

"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

contradicts what you say

[–] • 0 pt

Nobody makes any hard choices, nope.

[–] • 0 pt

judas did it for power. not for his own power, but so Jesus would seize it. he didn't expect Jesus to command his followers to lay down their swords.

the silver was a pittance. it was a small amount and not his primary motivation. anyone who thinks judas did it for the silver pieces is retarded.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

everything happens as it must..as it was designed to by God

Jesus was sent to die

the circumstance around His death were predetermined and had to be exactly as they were.

Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain' (Acts 2:23).

Judas "betrays " Jesus as we all betray HIM. we are no better than "Judas"

Matt 4:4 "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God"

we must SEE that as Judas betrays Christ so do we in this flesh. everything is written for us and to us... as we move from death to life in HIM... we live out the words in the bible.

Satan (evil spirits) enter into all of us as they did Judas to make him act as he did (as he must do)

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money. And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.

...they are the spirits which we believe and lead us astray... we are to"try the spirits to see if they are of God"...it is only through the power to overcome these spirit ,through Christ in us, that we can overcome them..this takes much prayer and fasting ( gifts from God)

3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

“Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

part of my theory, is that jesus lead judas to turn jesus in, to fulfill the resurrection prophecy

No, Jesus didn’t lead him to do anything of the sort. He simply knew what Judas was going to do ahead of time and didn’t intercede to stop him.

Because we spend every waking moment bound within 4 dimensions (width, length, height being 3, time being the 4th and most limiting), we can’t understand the concept of being outside of time. And yet, God is not bound by time.

Jesus was not bound by time either insofar as he was so connected to God, that God would regularly tell him what is to come. This happened all the time in the scriptures, and the Bible actually says that Jesus never said or did anything that God didn’t tell him to do or say.

Now, some people (such as Calvinists) take this concept to mean that God predestines everyone’s lives/actions…and that doctrine causes all sorts of problems.

You could say that the Calvinist is half right, though they got the wrong half correct.

God does have a plan or template for everyone’s life. But because we live in a fallen world, no one ever fulfills that template 100% as this would require perfection and obviously, none of us are perfect. So the idea that god has a plan, or a “predestination” for everyone’s life is correct.

But having a plan for someone does not equate to forcing them to do anything, especially when we’re talking about humans who were, from the very beginning, given free will.

God is simply so mighty that he knows what you are going to do of your own free will. He gives everyone as many chances as possible to accept salvation. Some do and some don’t. He basically does all he can with the exception of forcing you or me to accept that gift.

Some say that being able to know the future to such a degree and then allowing people to make their own choice to do wrong is the same thing as “predestination” in the way that the calvinists describe it. But it’s not. These people either forget or don’t understand that God stands by his own word. It actually says he holds his word above his own name. Who do you know who does this? No one but him. And his word, from the very beginning, was that man has free will. He can’t go and change his word after the fact because some men choose to exercise that freedom poorly, because then that would go against his own word, making him a liar, and lying is something that he is incapable of.

The plan to have Jesus die to save man was already figured out long before Judas was even born. They simply knew what he was going to do, what every man was going to do, and built the plan to operate within that framework.

It’s complicated, but also simple.

Also, Jesus was pre-existent. He says to God “let them (meaning us) share in the same Glory you and I shared before we lit the universe up.”

And it also says he was “slayed before the foundation of the world.” That’s pretty early.

Larger point, you can’t look at any of this within a linear time frame, because a linear time frame doesn’t apply to begin with.

[–] • 0 pt

While Jesus was well known by reputation, it wasnt as if there were statues, coins, paintings, etc depicting him. The kiss was to identify him.

[–] • 0 pt

The different methods of death are not different. You are just reading the words hanging and impaled as different when they have the same meaning. Jesus was hung.

[–] • 0 pt

Judas was the treasurer for the group. his job was to collect money so they could give to the needy.

He often times witnessed Christ get into sticky situations with the authorities and get out of them with ease.

He saw an opportunity to get these 30 pieces of silver into the treasury. - Why? because he heard Christ talking about the fact that he would be taken from them, but did not understand that it was this time. he thought, like many of us, that he had more time before this would occur.

once he realized his mistake? he saw no way out.

[–] • 0 pt

He betrayed Jesus because Jesus needed him to fulfill his purpose on earth.