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[–] 1 pt

That's an interesting take on classical imagery. We know Hell is a borrowed term and Sheol was the term Christ used, which was the territory of unclaimed graves, meant as a general metaphor for death. So Yeshua Yosephson never preached of Dante's Inferno, but we work with the theology we're taught and this mannachian Zoroastrian patchwork of Catholicism turned evangelical gospel via KJV is what Christianity is to most people in the world.

[–] [deleted] 1 pt (edited )

We know Hell is a borrowed term and Sheol was the term Christ used

Well, no. You can make this argument about the Torah, but in the NT for example you have the story of Lazarus, the rich man goes to Hades (not Sheol) a place of torment where he is "tormented in this flame" (described in other sections of the NT as a place where "the worms don't die", and many other examples), while Lazarus goes to the Bosom of Abraham. This is thought to be some sort of a purgatory, since nobody could enter into Heaven until Christ. So this is actually pretty clear imagery laid out regarding heaven and hell (the existence of it, anyways).

But it is a valid observation for the Torah, which most people aren't aware of. So that's cool you know that. I appreciate the intelligent critique.

This isn't what Christianity is to a lot of people (evangelicals etc) but that's mainly because they don't care about philosophy. Like, at all. So it's really just a vague understanding that when you die you go somewhere that isn't good. Not really a firm conviction about what that actually means.

Protestantism is a system of pretty much continuously reinventing the wheel since there's no top-down authority, so it's not necessarily that they don't believe it but that they're only able to get to step 3 when this is step 15. I'm an Orthodox Christian, these ideas were formulated over the course of 1,000+ years. It's the culmination of many brilliant minds devoting their entire lives to the pursuit of truth, exchanging ideas, deliberating. That's pretty hard to compete with by just...getting together with a bunch of other pals who believe in Christ, chatting about it and maybe starting a blog or reading a few books from contemporary authors.

I have yet to receive any pushback from other Christians about this though. They think it's great and insightful. It would be incredibly difficult to find a Christian who would hear what I said and be like "ummm no, fuck you. Hell is literally a torture chamber where God sits there stabbing you in the face for eternity". I would have trouble trying to find one. I mean, even for that matter I have trouble finding atheists who find what I'm saying problematic (conceptually, of course). It's pretty sensible and obvious once you hear it. I really don't know why this understanding went by the wayside.

TL;DR It's less that they believe something contradictory to what I'm saying and more that the wisdom and knowledge of our ancestors has been entirely erased. Which is sad.

[–] 0 pt

I respect Orthodox Christianity. I read Staniloe's Orthodox Spirituality and found it deeply insightful. While I can't say I understood it, I found it more valuable than most Abrahamic cults and if you're following Christ you might as well join His church, not the pagan syncretists (Catholics) and book worshipers (Protestants).

That said, if we're tracing the genealogy of ideas, Yeshua and the Gospel writers studied the Septuagint as well as other Hellenistic works (Gospel writers are highly educated in Greek literary and theatrical form). While the immortal soul is hard to find in the Hebrew texts, as Israel's soul is it's material wealth and people, it is not hard to find in Plato and Plutinous. So through the bastard son of god we get bastardized hybrid of Greek and Hebrew thought, just what a Roman occupied middle eastern territory needed to adapt to the humiliation of being conquered once again.

If the Orthodox aesthetic appeals to you, I'm glad you found your bliss on this rock of suffering and agony. If Hell is life without god, then I'll say even Hell has its moments. It's not all bad.

There's meaning and joy to be found outside Yeshua's Ultimatum. We're not all Waiting for Godot and that's Ok. If God wants to judge me for using my mind to come to my own conclusions, I'll accept that. In the meantime, I think Epicurious was right. If there is a god, they don't intervene, so pay them no mind.

[–] [deleted] 1 pt (edited )

I think it's still a fundamental misunderstanding what Orthodox Christianity is. I would describe it as Plato's theory of forms if the ultimate good was not just a mechanical and lifeless concept. When you understand this it's not an ultimatum, just a disagreement on what that good actually is. But it's your journey not mine. I'm glad you at least have a thoughtful approach. Whether Christian or atheist it's pretty rare to find that. Happy independence day.