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I grew up in a poor background - to the point that I regularly went around collecting cans to scrape together enough cash to buy used clothes at a thrift store because spending even $5 on a new t-shirt wasn't affordable. This gave me an excellent sense of frugality and an incredible work-ethic because I'd gladly work 3 jobs to put food on the table. I spent years either working, skilling up, applying for jobs, or frantically hoarding diversified assets. Boomers destroying the first several companies I worked at only reinforced the pervasive sense that winter is coming, all the food's going to be gone, and tomorrow there's going to be no income for months or years so you better save like it's 1402 and the flipping plague is rolling through the countryside.

I'm not poor anymore. I'll never be poor again. I'm wealthy now by any standard and even a Dickens-novel level financial disaster would pan out as a worst case of "Oh noez, I have to slum it and fly coach with the plebes".

Here's the catch: that poverty mindset that kept me from starving and made me wealthy? It still gives me fucking anxiety spending money I will never need and wouldn't notice if it was gone. Even if it's something trivial like $5 for a new shirt, I still get the skin-crawling sensation because I feel like I should be:

1) Hoarding that cash for a rainy day. 2) Investing it for a future rainy day. 3) Buying more ammo than I can carry incase of a Mad Max style apocalypse. 4) Buying more crypto or precious metals incase I need to bug out to another country on five minutes notice because the commies started stringing people up.

I know this is irrational. If that new shirt was $500, it still wouldn't matter because I have the resources and you can only wear so many shirts. But there's still that ohmagerd-Im-gonna-starve-if-I-dont-super-frugal-ARRRRRGHH emotion going on. How do I put a stake in the heart of this mentality that served me well for decades, but is no longer useful and is now straight up counter-productive?

I grew up in a poor background - to the point that I regularly went around collecting cans to scrape together enough cash to buy used clothes at a thrift store because spending even $5 on a new t-shirt wasn't affordable. This gave me an excellent sense of frugality and an incredible work-ethic because I'd gladly work 3 jobs to put food on the table. I spent years either working, skilling up, applying for jobs, or frantically hoarding diversified assets. Boomers destroying the first several companies I worked at only reinforced the pervasive sense that winter is coming, all the food's going to be gone, and tomorrow there's going to be no income for months or years so you better save like it's 1402 and the flipping plague is rolling through the countryside. I'm not poor anymore. I'll never be poor again. I'm wealthy now by any standard and even a Dickens-novel level financial disaster would pan out as a worst case of "Oh noez, I have to slum it and fly *coach* with the plebes". Here's the catch: that poverty mindset that kept me from starving and made me wealthy? It still gives me fucking anxiety spending money *I will never need and wouldn't notice if it was gone.* Even if it's something trivial like $5 for a new shirt, I still get the skin-crawling sensation because I feel like I should be: 1) Hoarding that cash for a rainy day. 2) Investing it for a future rainy day. 3) Buying more ammo than I can carry incase of a Mad Max style apocalypse. 4) Buying more crypto or precious metals incase I need to bug out to another country on five minutes notice because the commies started stringing people up. I know this is irrational. If that new shirt was $500, it still wouldn't matter because I have the resources and you can only wear so many shirts. But there's still that ohmagerd-Im-gonna-starve-if-I-dont-super-frugal-ARRRRRGHH emotion going on. How do I put a stake in the heart of this mentality that served me well for decades, but is no longer useful and is now straight up counter-productive?

(post is archived)

[–] • 8 pts

I don't think that feeling ever goes away. My depression era grandmother saved and reused scraps of foil until the day she died, and grandpop saved every nail and screw in babyfood jars nailed to the underside of the garage shelves for the same reason. It was a compulsive waste of time, but the memory of truly hard times was always there driving the behavior.

Where I did see them spend money was on things that had value, where value was the benefit received compared to the amount spent. Grandpop bought a new car so that Grandmom had reliable transportation and safety. He installed A/C in the house so that extended family could gather and enjoy time indoors together. He bought that ridiculously expensive Atari so that the kids could gather and play together. They always bought the large, full Christmas tree so that family pics would be perfect in Grandmom's album. None of these things needed to be bought, but they provided value, and the benefit received was worth the cost.

So if I have any recommendation, it would be to determine what value a thing has for you, and make your choice on that cost/benefit equation, rather than just the cost of it. Spending money for the sake of it is foolish, but so is not spending it when you would truly rather have the benefit it gives. Not spending can be just as wasteful if you lose a benefit you'd rather have. Think of also what you are gaining, and see if that doesn't help.

[–] • 4 pts

I divide my income into two piles. One is "Spend spend spend!" It's set aside to spend on whatever. I know it's set aside to spend, and it winds up at $50ish at the end of the period.

The other pile is investments and bills. That's where all the bills (obviously) get paid from, where my investment money comes from, and where savings comes from. I know I can't spend that, and I like to keep it at about 150% of the current expense period's needs. (If I have to pay out $200, I make sure to have $300 in it.)

It's still a bit nerve-wracking at times, but I know that I can spend the money in account A and still have my needs met with what's in account B. You simply have to train yourself to realize this.

[–] • 4 pts

So account B is your...nest egg?

[–] • 2 pts

I refuse to answer that.

[–] • 1 pt

So it’s a positive, roger that!

[+] [deleted] • 2 pts
[–] • 2 pts

Ask jesus christ to deliver you

[–] • 1 pt

I always remember that verse about tearing down barns to build bigger barns. You cant take it with you. :)

Donating to my church is one of the few things that doesn't release the spending anxiety weasels. But they're already funded beyond their needs and have told me that they're out of sensible things to spend it on and are just going to donate it to charity if I give them anymore.

[–] • 1 pt

I didn't mean it that way, I meant with prayer you ask to be delivered from that anxiety

Now maybe it's there to protect you from yourself idk

Those guys need donations https://dolorans.org/chapel/

https://youtu.be/h4ANS8-KETo?t=1271

[–] • 1 pt

Thanks for the advice. I honestly hadnt thought of praying for deliverance from excessive frugality, but that's a really wise idea now that you bring it up.

[–] • 2 pts

Do you have any cash in your wallet? If yes, then burn some. Quite literally, take a match or a lighter and set at least $1 on fire.

This should churn your stomach, but it should help you realize that what you once saw as critical is now consumable. Burning that bill should help you.

I've done this once. It's not the end all, but it helped.

[–] • 1 pt

You're on to something. There's probably a couple hundred in there and I know logically that I'd never notice if it went up in smoke. And it would churn my stomach despite that.

[–] • 0 pt

You could send some to me. I am treading water over here.

[–] • 2 pts

I have about the same mindset, but have always called it Yankee frugality. I still cringe every time I have to spend money, I always seek the best price before opening my wallet. Once one is born into poverty, worked their ass off for money to live, then to thrive, I don't think one can ever unlearn those valuable lessons. No one wants to be in poverty, especially in old age when you can no longer work your way out of it.

"It's not so much how much you make, it's what you do with it."

With lots of hard work and some good fortune, I became wealthy and retired at 45. I spent a couple of years living like a multimillionaire, expensive restaurants, lots of bars, travel, pissed away a lot of money ... and came to the realization spend-thrift life wasn't for me, inside I cringed at spending at those levels, it was actually making me unhappy! I could have continued to spend money like a madman, but reverted back to the values I learned earlier in life. Those two years were a great learning experience. I live less frugally now than when I was younger, occasionally indulge myself, easily blend in with everyone else because I don't flaunt my wealth and continue to live at a standard well below my means. Life is good enough, low stress, low drama. No financial stress. I get all the stress I can handle from reading the news every day.

A penny saved is a penny earned.

[–] • 1 pt

That's spot on for what it feels like. I can afford a spendthrift lifestyle, but as you said it makes me unhappy.

[–] • 1 pt

Understand that money is relative. Imagine your life a bit like an economical strategy game like ie StarCraft. In the beginning you were poor, you had 4 scvs, anything was expensive. By the end you’ve got 4 bases, 12 starports and you can build a full supply limit battle cruiser fleet in one run.

[–] • 1 pt

I know what you're getting at - essentially viewing spending in terms of % of assets rather than absolute amounts. When you're a teenager $50 is a LOT, but once you're well off that might as well be loose change in your couch.

Do you have any advice on adjusting your mindset to think in percentage terms?

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

I think always understand things in the concept of assets vs liabilities. Assets or things that hold value are always worth spending on. The problem is how and when to start putting value to your entertainment.

It’s easier when you’re older and you’ve already got your nest egg secure. Then you’re both safe to “blow” money and you’re older enough to know you’re running out of time, you need to start enjoying it.

[–] • 1 pt

Why not finance a cause you believe in?

[–] • 1 pt

I'm financing several. I'm more interested in advice on how to kill off the anxiety weasels of frugality because they've served their purpose and are now counterproductive.

It's similar to how a toddler having a fear of chihuahuas after being bitten is reasonable, but once you're an adult there is no sane reason for that anxiety. It cant harm you anymore, and if it tries just punt the darn thing.

[–] • 1 pt

God says you should save one-fifth of what you earn. If you are saving more, you are gambling your future and slowly forsaking your present. Your time is the most precious thing in the world. Work on saving your time and building the best cost-benefit scenario for spending to save time, but not as much that it will leave you poor.

[–] • 0 pt

God says you should save one-fifth of what you earn

Technically it's 10% for the church and 10% for personal expenses to celebrate religious observances, but I get what you mean. I'm well over a 50% savings rate and still struggling to yeet the frugality weasels so I dont have anxiety over spending what's left. Which I know is an irrational emotional because logically a +50% savings rate is WTF-BBQ-Go-Buy-Something territory.

[–] • 0 pt

You could cut that to 25-33% and still sleep well. Maybe you could spend in capacitation, since its also technically "saving".

[–] • 1 pt

You should spend it and enjoy it responsibly. If you don't, as soon as you die somebody else will be out spending it for you. And they will not have any problems doing it.

[–] • 2 pts

Not if you raise your kids well.

[–] • 1 pt

Everyone in my will came from a similar background of grinding poverty curing them of consumption spending, so they have the same problem I do.

[–] • 1 pt

Like it has been said here already, separate the savings from the discretionary. Budget a spending purse and make sure it is spent by the end of the month. If it's the 30th you either splerge the rest on something or donate it.

Also, normal people don't just buy whatever they want. They pine over things and save for them. That anticipation often provides more enjoyment than the purchase. The part of your brain that had that expectation of reward is fried because you did not have stability. Try to work on that too.

Maybe get a hobby and set up an allowance. Every week you get some small amount for that hobby. Shop for things before you can afford them. Have a wish list. Set up some goals for your hobby that will allot you a bonus.

[–] • 0 pt

Budget a spending purse and make sure it is spent by the end of the month. If it's the 30th you either splurge the rest on something or donate it.

I think you're on to something. Even thinking about that brought the frugality weasels out in full force, despite me rationally knowing that's literally the point of budgeting. I think I'll try that and see if it helps retrain my brain that it's ok to spend a modest amount on frivolous things.

Also, normal people don't just buy whatever they want. They pine over things and save for them. That anticipation often provides more enjoyment than the purchase. The part of your brain that had that expectation of reward is fried because you did not have stability. Try to work on that too.

Completely agree. That part of my brain is definitely miswired. I went straight from "I cant save for it so there's no sense wanting it" to "I can buy it on a whim but the frugality weasels ensure net negative enjoyment than going without".

Maybe get a hobby and set up an allowance. Every week you get some small amount for that hobby. Shop for things before you can afford them. Have a wish list. Set up some goals for your hobby that will allot you a bonus.

That's part of the problem. I dont need to save for things so shopping or a wish list that normal people have would run smack into the irrational emotion of "Why are you 'wasting' money on something you dont need" and the logical "You're wasting time on an arbitrary budget for a thing you can afford to go buy on a whim".

Most of the hobbies I really enjoy are people-centric, which makes it hard to spend much on them. I dont want boats or cars or ski chalets, I want coffee with my book club or to invite some friends over for dinner.

[–] • 0 pt

I dont need to save for things

That is why you have an allowance for the hobby. Every week deposit $20 into the hobby account. You can only use that money for the hobby. It gives you the experience of a steady growth that you need to be patient with.

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