Yes. "The people" down own shit, the government does.
Government is an abstract concept to hide the very real people in control. Very similar to derivatives in finance where toxic assets are hidden so people don't see what they are made of. Criminals love obfuscating things this way. Shell corporations are a favorite tactic. These are similar to ETFs of ETFs, in finance. The idea is to layer the real perpetrators behind multiple layers making it difficult to know who is in control.
That's a good way to look at it. I can certainly see the government as a tool for the ones who actually hold power to use to flex their muscles, so to speak. But re: the ETF, you mean it is an indicator of movement/change but hides the details? When they say the s&p is up/down, there is more to it?
This is a long topic, but I'll condense it down to ETFs and derivatives are bets. The market going up/down is meaningless and mostly reflects HFT algorithms moving capital from some instruments to different instruments. In short, they're only seeking short term gains. The general market can only go in one direction and that is up. This is because (((central banks))) essentially counterfeit currency at a high rate. All this new currency needs to be laundered somewhere...AND that usually is stocks. This is why the market generally only goes up. If you pay attention to the financial whores like Jim Cramer, you'll hear them predict markets going down because of the China Flu or unemployment or whatever. But it continues up. The stock market is completely disconnected from reality because there is so much capital doing nothing. Capital is no longer being used for producing goods and services. Instead (((hedge funds))) use it to make bets. Take a look at GME. That stock was bet on both sides by multiple (((hedge funds))) one side was shorting it while the other side was trying to squeeze the shorts. Now this is not investing, but betting.
I could go on, but I hope this answers your questions.
The government does not own the means of production. Wtf?
Real communism has never been tried.
It has actually.
Not in the us.
They 100% do, the federal reserve owns everything. There’s your one example, but it doesn’t end there. They regulate business so much so that it determines how business is done too. They also purchase stock and determine price discovery. All 100% socialist, they fooled you by using different words you don’t understand.
Federal reserve does not own my cooperative company, try again.
Under communism, the government WILL own the means of production. They say that "the people" will own it, but businesses/assets/real estate etc will all be seized by the state. Where there were once options on where to spend your money, now there is only the state. And the state does a crap job of running businesses, just look at the dmv and post office. Guess what else? If the state doesn't like you, it can cut you off from all those products and services. Or maybe it will destroy that business altogether, so the people are weakened and more easily controlled. Where before you might go down to your neighbor's ranch and get some beef, now the government has taken his acreage and killed all the cows. Do what we say to get your government cheese or starve, peasant! But it's okay, because there's no awful rich people anymore. Now we're equally poor and destitute!
Dmv and post office work well here, maybe it's where you are.
That isn't reality right now.
define "the government".
I would say the rulers (not the politicians in the news) own the means of production, and run the government.
The government, it's not hard. In the US, the few own the means that f production, and exploit YOU to make them more money.
Best to get on the ownership train.
What do you mean define? Does the government own the means of production? No, easy answer.
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