> He's very much raping you against the still stationary goalposts. Wishing doesn't make it true. > If they don't watch it actually drown, how can they know it is actually fatal I have to believe you're not this stupid or you would have no chance of figuring out how to turn a computer on to type on the internet. > or that they have truly and completely given up and succumbed to death? Because once they start inhaling water it's a done deal. > How else do you think they test for toxicity? This is the moving goalposts you wish so badly weren't moving. This isn't a test for toxicity. This is a test of choice. The rat being exposed to toxic chemicals can't choose to live or die. It's a different test altogether. Why do I have to explain this to someone? You'd think it's obvious. > Cry more in the corner there, sensitive Steven. Science is sausage making. I don't cry in the corner about psychotic people any more than I do about child molestors. They both need to be dealt with similarly.