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Has anyone considered the value of clip loaded combat rifles, as per an SKS or M1 Garand?

The value of clips when loading magazines is clear, to your thumb at least, but what about the value of never needing a magazine, ever?

The more ammo you have, the more valuable the clip-loaded rifle becomes.

Suppose you have a big stash of ammo, over 1000 rounds. WIth a magazine-fed rifle, how much of your ammo do you pre-load into magazines, ie, how many mags do you need? How long do you leave those magazines loaded?

With clip fed rifles, your ammo is always ready.

Is someone really going to load 1200 rounds of bulk ammo into 40 x 30 round magazines and leave it stashed indefinately? Not likely.

Is someone really going to have 1200 rounds of ammo in pre-loaded clips for their SKS or Garand? Sure, and why the hell not? It's not like clips are prohibitively expensive, and it's especially convenient if the ammo is pre-loaded into clips.

BTW, a "mini Garand" with clip-fed, top-loaded internal magazine that fires .223, perhaps from 10 or 12 round clips, would be the ultimate Guerrilla warfare combat rifle.

Edit: I never even mentioned the issue of bad magazines, which are very common. If you have dozens of magazines loaded up, have you tested them before hand? What do you do with magazines that "sorta" jam? Seriously, anyone dissing my argument on the grounds that magazines are automatically superior is a knucklehead at best.

Has anyone considered the value of clip loaded combat rifles, as per an SKS or M1 Garand? The value of clips when loading magazines is clear, to your thumb at least, but what about the value of never needing a magazine, ever? The more ammo you have, the more valuable the clip-loaded rifle becomes. Suppose you have a big stash of ammo, over 1000 rounds. WIth a magazine-fed rifle, how much of your ammo do you pre-load into magazines, ie, how many mags do you need? How long do you leave those magazines loaded? With clip fed rifles, your ammo is always ready. Is someone really going to load 1200 rounds of bulk ammo into 40 x 30 round magazines and leave it stashed indefinately? Not likely. Is someone really going to have 1200 rounds of ammo in pre-loaded clips for their SKS or Garand? Sure, and why the hell not? It's not like clips are prohibitively expensive, and it's especially convenient if the ammo is pre-loaded into clips. BTW, a "mini Garand" with clip-fed, top-loaded internal magazine that fires .223, perhaps from 10 or 12 round clips, would be the ultimate Guerrilla warfare combat rifle. Edit: I never even mentioned the issue of bad magazines, which are very common. If you have dozens of magazines loaded up, have you tested them before hand? What do you do with magazines that "sorta" jam? Seriously, anyone dissing my argument on the grounds that magazines are automatically superior is a knucklehead at best.

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[–] • 0 pt

Clips can be very quickly reloaded, particularly the Garand style clips which are potentially faster to reload than magazines. They better be fast if they only hold 8 rounds. Regardless of how many rounds the clips hold, no one ever has to reload them during a fight, which can't be said about magazines unless ALL the ammo is pre-loaded into magazines.

Contrary to popular myth, M1 Garand rifles can be "topped off" with loose rounds, albeit it's somewhat of an awkward procedure and runs counter to the ide of having all the ammo in clips, it can be done quite rapidly with some practice. I don't know about SKS rifles.

There's no reason an internal 30 round clip-fed rifle couldn't be developed. The scenario where a clip is most advantageous doesn't also require high ammo capacity, namely extended firefights from a fixed location.

[–] • 2 pts

You seem to be missing the fact that stripper clips can be used to load external mags as well thereby combining the advantages of stripper clips with an external mag.

  • Stripper clips can be used to load external mags with the same ease and speed as internal mags
  • Internal mags provide more points of failure on a rifle
  • External mags can be changed quickly while moving
  • External mags can be reloaded by others while fighting
  • A magazine failure / jam with an external mag is seconds to resolve vs rifle disassembly when there is an internal mag

Look, shoot whatever you want but this debate is settled. External mags are better than internal mags which is why every single firearms manufacturer has adopted them and why internal mags were universally abandoned.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

I'm actually favoring the Garand style clips over the stripper clips. I don't really like the SKS design for that reason, but it's one of the only 2 auto rifles I can think of with clip fed internal magazines.

  • Loading internal mags with clips is clearly faster, as there's no secondary loading (of the magazine) once the clip is fed into the internal magazine. This is especially true for Garand style clips.

  • Internal mags can fail, but a major point of the pro-magazine argument is that magazine springs are super reliable, which is also true for internal magazines. The issue of internal magazine reliability is miniscule compared to the issue of external magazine reliability, and by a wide margin.

  • Magazines for mobility is a very strong argument, and vs. 8 or 10 round clip-fed rifles it's likely a winning one. The counter is that magazines are heavier than clips, and that high-capacity clip-fed rifles could be developed, rendering the advantages of magazines nearly irrelevant, while clips will always be lighter. 30 round clip-fed rifles could be somewhat awkward, at least they wouldn't have the option of a smaller magazine. Clip fed rifles are particularly well suited for static defense rather than mobile combat.

  • External magazines can be reloaded, while clips NEVER need to be reloaded. Advantage clips for all eternity. Pre-loaded magazines are the answer, but beyond ~ 600 pre-loaded rounds, it's a dubious strategy. At what point do you spend more money on the magazines than the rifle itself? Remember that cheap magazines jam.

  • An internal magazine failure is fatal flaw, but I doubt it's any more likely than some other internal failure on a magzine-fed rifle, the spring being one of the most reliable parts. External magazines are far more likely to jam, and need to be independently tested beforehand, driving the cost of external mags through the roof. Given the cost of external magazines, it could plausibly be more affordable to have a 2nd (clip fed) rifle on hand than 30 or more loaded magazines, so that's at least one possible solution to the busted internal mag dilemma. It's quite a bit like the argument about revolver failure vs automatic pistols.