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all effects have causes.

I’m as yet unconvinced the Whole of Everything is comprised of “causes” and “effects”. I suspect a vast, underlying, implicate primordial “essence” or whatnot, entirely beyond our grasp.

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The essence of God of course is beyond our grasp, and of course it without a cause, because He is not an effect.

But His creatures are effects, since they are contingent, and finite, and temporal rather than eternal.

Thus when discussing matters within time and nature, causation obviously applies.

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Thus when discussing matters within time and nature, causation obviously applies.

What’s weird about humans, is this capacity to direct attention beyond Causality to this primordial essence, and being inspired thereby - informed of it, I guess - ourselves becoming patterned after something beyond cause and effect.

Since that’s always an option, while I can acknowledge everything in creation is subject to the Rules - I can perceive of significance beyond Causality, in how events relate to my relationship with this Essence.

And because that is an option, Causality is just one set among an infinite set of “significances”.

That probably sounds kind of weird, but it’s something I’ve been directing attention to for a while, and it’s not easy to describe.

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Peace's answer to this was very good. I'd just introduce a different phrasing here to express the same idea, but in a way that tends to "hit the right key" for me.

The basic and most primordial aspect of you, the subject, is transcendent. Nothing, but by being outside of a system, can have knowledge of that system. Difference is key. A flake in the Frosted Flakes box cannot know about other flakes. If it were alive it may react instinctually and, more or less, by way of purely psychological kinds of learned responses. But it could not know.

The intellective act is therefore carried out by a subject which transcends the system. We say the subject is transcendent with respect to the system.

Now, contrast this term with transcendental. The faculties themselves by which you do the intellective act of reasoning here within the system are transcendental. Think of the transcendent as an upward pointing triangle, and transcendental as down.

The union of these represents the subject experience you have here. Your intellect transcends this system, forming the grounds for you to know and pointing upward at the source. Descending and issuing from the mind are the faculties that do the knowing, the transcendentals, a priori things like cause and effect, space and time.

The thing I believe you sense is what Kant called the "thing in itself". You sense that you are seeing the apparent, but not the real. There is a world behind the world.

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That is absolutely the case. We have been using causality in a purely horizontal sense here - temporal causality. I suspect that the "relationship with this Essence" of which you speak, as something "beyond Causality", is actually what I and others would term "vertical causality" - a non-temporal causal connection between you and this essence. Our intellect - our knowing faculty - has a vertical nature, whereas our reason is horizontal insofar as it is discursive, from A to B to C.

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You would enjoy Kant. Cause and effect are necessary a priori conditions that are supplied by the mind, which structure any possible experience of creation.

It is from the essence of God that we derive the very faculties that create our experience.

The essence is to produce experience where cause and effect make said experience sensible.

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You would enjoy Kant.

I’m more of a Kan guy, than a Kant. More positive.

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Hahaha. Dammit.