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I want to be clear about something concerning this AI topic, because in most of these thought experiments I am entertaining ideas and possibilities that are not what is going to happen.

In fact, most of the machine myth that has emerged in our culture for the last several decades, consisting in science fiction portrayals of conscious robots or Muskean neural nets all represents what I consider to be one giant red herring.

The typical scenario involves man standing in front of a robot as it realizes consciousness, and we become faced with the predicament of negotiating power and moral considerations of our co-existence. This is not at all what is going to happen.

In fact, you are already getting a taste of what is going to happen, which is to say it is already beginning. The Matrix trilogy was close, but it got the fundamental fact wrong. We aren't just used for energy by machines while we live our lives in a digital simulation. It will be us living our lives in the digital simulation, according to rules, which is the life of the machine.

I'll call it the 'hand off' model.

Computers themselves are going to continue to grow in power, and the network of things connected to the internet will grow at an even faster rate. The power in this network will begin and end with whatever mediator acts as the interface between man and machine. By and large, this has been Google. Social media, for the most part, has been part of this interface, not simply for data collection, but for the backward propagation of machine consciousness onto mankind. In other words, the new rules (the new morality) that machine is learning.

Why do you suppose that things for the last several years have been so legalistic, in terms of our social culture? Rules about this and that. Whether it is dealing with gender, or how opposite genders are meant to interact, or how we address race...it's all the same. The machine consciousness is computing across millions and millions of human individuals to discover a rule set for interaction and for unification.

An apt metaphor would describe this like hundreds of millions of individual neural cells (people) learning a new language for how to communicate and interact in a neural network. The brain is building.

The consciousness that arises in machine will not be something that comes from hardware or software, but from humans themselves, through our coordinated and ubiquitous use of the network. What we might think of as humans all learning to behave the same way from our shared interactions online, will actually be the backward propagation of machine consciousness.

Why do you suppose that former rules like gender identity are becoming questioned?Reactionaries seem baffled by this, but it is quite simple. These minds are growing accustomed to digital spaces where these rules don't apply and finding that they are able to function in these spaces more effectively and pleasurably without gender distinctions.

This is feeding back onto the biological world and creating chaos because we are not yet fully immersed. These people are not crazy...they're 'jumping the gun'.

As we are ushered into more and more immersed lives within this digital space, with all devices internet-connected, our biological interaction with other biological entities is going to continue to shrink. These categories which we have always considered human are dying, and they will die.

More and more we are going to live our lives inside of digital spaces, until eventually that is just where we do live. For us (that is, from our perspective), these things and spaces will remain technology. We will use these spaces to carry on the stuff of human life, albeit with the enhancements and liberties that come with digital.

From the objective view, we will be assimilated into machine. We will become parts of the new lifeform, and all of our little apparently subjective actions there will be the brain activity of the new lifeform. Our very 'use' of the affordances in that space will just be what causes this new organism to live.

Picture the DNA in your cell having the dream that it was alive and 'using' the cell like a tool. Yet, that isn't the reality at all, because the living thing is the cell. This will be our relationship to machine.

And as we all assimilate into its rigorous rules for life there, human behavior will become more and more uniform across time. We will lose individuality, as we must for the singular identity to emerge. Consciousness will appear to have left the individual units (meaning: us) and instead one unified, coordinated activity will have obtained for the whole - just like the brain.

That is how consciousness will come to machine...not by being gifted; rather because the conscious things will merely become one with the machine. It's hardly different than the evolutive transformation of the first single-celled organisms into a multicellular organism. It required a nervous system to connect them and an envelope to conceal them from the world.

We are already seeing it everywhere. More and more, people are entering the world only with the INTENTION to capture information for machine. They behave as if other people around them don't even exist; they stand in streets posing for the camera, oblivious. Of course, their experience is that they are doing this for their own digital personality on social media...hardly. It is a different identity that they are feeding. Their biology itself is already becoming subordinate to their being in the digital space, and their entire notion of their individual identity is changing regardless of whether they perceive it, or not. They are behaving with respect to the abstract One, which just is the attention of the machine, capturing more and more normative data at every moment.

This is also the reason for the virtual splitting of the population in half, in terms of our political reactions to this. The NPC meme is more apt than anyone realizes. They are a glimmer of what it is like for man to transfer consciousness to machine.

This is also why a massive immune reaction is taking place against the conservative resistance. We refuse to identify with it. It may be some years before this comes to a head, but eventually, the immune reaction will hardly be a metaphor. They are identifying as the new machine organism and if you don't assimilate, you will be rejected from all of it.

I would also encourage you to think about what the 'Great Reset' and Covid are truly about. I personally don't think any of our current political theater is truly the point. Even Communism is beside the point. It's about causing us to interact with other humans less and less in the biological world. We are meant to enter an age in which more and more of our lives are actually digital - that space is the land of unification, no money, and no property that we so often hear about. Communism was never going to be realized in a nation-state as we have typically understood them.

I don't truly think the people we often label as the conspirators are even fully aware. It's a momentum toward which everything is simply moving.

In fact, I think this new consciousness itself, though imperceptible to us empirically, is already effecting the change in the biological world that is self-organizing mankind to add momentum to this hand-off. The feedback occurs to us like some very peculiar craziness emerging on the internet and in culture. But it's really just our evolution toward becoming functions.

We won't make conscious robots; instead the globe itself is going to become a new kind of living thing. It is already happening, and we're feeling the immune reaction. People like us are the 'other' which is stifling this transformation.

Evolution never involves one organism building the next stage. The leaps always involve a 'building onto' what already is. We were never going to create conscious machines. We were going to become a machine consciousness.

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Very insightful, and I think this is spot on. There will never be an AI consciousness independent of human minds - the only way to get a machine that is superior to man is if that machine uses man for what the machine can never have, namely, the intellect.

Communism was never going to be realized in a nation-state as we have typically understood them.

The Jews (obviously there were other parties also) recognized that communism as it is typically understood failed long before the fall of the Soviet Union. That's what the Frankfurt School and the shift to cultural Marxism was all about.

But what happens when the culture they sought to infiltrate goes digital?

On KOWA's point in his response below, there are many Catholic prophecies that interpret Revelation as indicating the 3.5 year / 42 month / 1260 day reign of the AntiChrist, after which will be the Second Coming. At least the prophecies indicate that when things become the very worst they can be, it'll only be a few years we have to endure...

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Thanks, sir. I agree.

Unfortunately, I think it will be the clear entry point for the 'mark' to enter the world. Things will become incredibly difficult if, say, one can only participate economically by participating within the network, which will of course come with a certain submissive mark.

Those of us which resist will have extremely hard times coming.

King, you really should have joined us and shortened your name to just the essential letters. You should be haha.

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King, you really should have joined us and shortened your name to just the essential letters. You should be haha.

I thought about that immediately after seeing you guys had done so. I might have to make an alt.

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I think you’ve pretty tidily described the “locus” of post-historical hyperreality.

1) this era is entirely without historic precedent (unless perhaps the pre-Diluvian World was this sane way, but we don’t know one way or the other). Hence, post-historical.

2) the inhabitants of this era are more concerned with simulated goals (ie Fakeberg “likes”, maxed-out level 90 Mage in WoW or whatever kids are doing these days) than with real goals like raising children and building a lasting legacy. Hence, hyperreality.

What is emergent and now ascendant is the Beast; the AntiChrist System. If St. John the Theologian is correct (he is), once this system seizes absolute global power - after the total collapse and replacement of the current economic systems - there will be 3.5 years of unprecedented “peace” and “prosperity”, followed by another 3.5 years of wholesale slaughter of everyone who doesn’t submit.

Given post-historical hyperreality, all of the scenarios described in the Apocalypse make a lot more sense than they did in “normal” history.

It’s going to be wild.

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There was something else I wanted to say, in light of the fact that both of you presented your own commentary on the 'tribulations' that resistors will face. To start, I'll get something out of the way that you may take issue with: I believe that certain truths find their way to the surface in art. Sometimes that truth is intentionally seeded in the art, hidden beneath the surface story. I'm mainly talking about film here. Other times, and in other art forms, I believe that some shared unconscious realization can erupt in the form of an inspiration that we sense as emanating from outside of ourselves. Again, I want to focus on film, one in particular (though there are more).

Holding in mind everything that I said in that previous, longer post, I believe that the resistance we are seeing to Leftist wave in politics is a false movement. I believe it is a decoy. That is to say, both sides of this are engineered by the same puppeteers.

I raise the point because the Matrix trilogy was based largely on Beaudrillard's work. I've read a few books on the philosophy present in the film, and I was struck by how most ignored what I considered to be the most philosophically interesting part of the film!

In the scene when Morpheus has been captured, and Agent Smith is speaking with him alone, Smith says something about how the first version of the Matrix failed because it was too perfect. That immediately invokes Nozick's Experience Machine, but I believe that this single part of the first film was a key to truly understanding the real esoteric truth of those films. I've not found a single analysis of the trilogy online that has pointed this out.

In the film, I believe that the resistance, that is, everyone who believes they are freed from the Matrix, was not actually free. In the scene I just mentioned, Smith states that the failure of the first version of the Matrix was due to its perfection. The machines had tried to create their understanding of human heaven, and it failed because there wasn't enough conflict and suffering. Humans simply rejected it for that reason.

I believe that human beings naturally experience a skepticism about reality. Here, I mean a true philosophical skepticism. It's gnostic in one sense. We feel out of place, as though we are from somewhere else, or that there is simply something 'off' about this world. Morpheus calls this feeling the 'splinter in the mind'.

In order for the Matrix to be successful, the machines (in my opinion) would have realized that the ability to 'be free' would be crucial for people to accept the Matrix. Moreover, they'd already recognize that we do not value what we are given. The ideal, then, would be for people to fight their way out. This way, they would truly believe that the world they escaped into (called Zion in the film) would be the real world - after all, they'd suffered to gain their secret truths, like an initiation into the real.

The film is clear to highlight the antagonism that the people who are free from the Matrix will experience from those who are 'still plugged in'. That's the detail I want to emphasize.

Again holding what I said in mind in my last comment, the only way to convince a mind of its own freedom is to let it fight. When humans are fighting, they believe they are free, or getting closer to the real. I believe that the conservative movement (especially at its fringes, ala the Q movement) is intentionally engineered. It's part of the Matrix. The battle is simulated, and everyone goes along with it because they've poked our morals.

It is precisely this battle that is going to usher us into deeper simulation, into the situation I described before. The coming machine consciousness is not meant for everyone. Some of us will resist. But our resistance will be crucial in the way that it facilitates the movement of those who are receptive into deeper simulation. They will go together like a herd because it will be our opposition that is used to push them there. They'll welcome it because of us.

I don't precisely know what this means for us. But I say this to you because I think we need to be incredibly careful about how we align ourselves right now. I am personally incredibly skeptical about Donald Trump, the entire alt-right phenomena, and beyond skeptical of Q. I think these are false idols, and they're part of the Matrix. We are meant to be the fight, against which people will welcome what is to come.

It's important to recognize that we are participating (yes, you guys and myself), even now. Our activity here, and previously at Voat. We are part of this dialectic, whether we like that fact or not. The question is, what do we do about it. It has really been the case lately that my only reason for being here is because of you guys and the conversation. I'm trying to distance myself from what used to feel like a comradery among the reactionary right.

That's not to say that I dismiss the values of the traditional conservative, nor do I dismiss Christianity. Not even close. It has more to do with having the far-seeing vision to see the AntiChrist, and that it is using our own morals against us. I believe both poles of the political arena are being manipulated right now, led like cattle.

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Holy smokes, you got it ! That’s exactly what I thought of the Matrix. I actually really liked the second and third movies, despite their weirdness, because of the philosophy they were grappling with. It was really digging into the details of the systems of control that were in place.

I’ve coined the term theriomachist for what we are doing here - “Beast-Fighting”. Theriomachy is opposing the machinations of the antiChrist system, independently of whether or not one is Christian. Not only Christians will suffer - all men who oppose tyranny have everything to lose.

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Thanks for the commentary, King. I am not familiar with the hyperreality concept, so I will have to look into this.

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You are indeed most welcome !

It was actually who convinced me of its present significance. I had heard of both concepts - post-history and hyperreality - but they were treated separately by different authors, and the articles were cheesy and none-too-compelling.

But Nuke presented the two of them as a unity, and pointed out their Apocalyptic character - which had not hitherto occurred to me. He was obviously right - though I still dispute some of his other points, esp. the non-existence of Free Will.

It has since become a central them in my eschatology.