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Millions of us are out on the road at any given moment and the risk of dying in a crash is 1 in 130. When we get in the car everyday we do not assume we're going to get in a wreck, never mind die. We have rules of the road and every driver we encounter is given the benefit of the doubt that they are safe. In other words, 100% benefit of the doubt that the guy in front or behind you is not a complete idiot. However, 100% is not practical is it, yet we continue to drive. We know there is a risk of crashing despite your own confidence in your ability to navigate rush hour traffic. We know that we share the road with bad drivers, drunk drivers, new drivers, young drivers, old drivers, poor sighted drivers and those with medical impairments. Accidents are a common and daily occurrence.

How does this relate to covid? Well, the parallels are pretty clear but inverted. The opposite seems to be true in the minds of the coof doomsdayers. Everyone is assumed to be infected and the responsibility lays with the government to ensure you are safe. This means, all infected people must be locked down regardless if they can transmit to others or not. Regardless if they show signs of being infected. Regardless if they are healthy. This includes you, the healthy doomsdayer.

Applying this logic to driving we can expect this. No one can drive until there are no more accidents. You are no longer able to decide for yourself to take a risk by driving. It is now no longer your responsibility to be confident in your ability to navigate traffic, despite how good you are. As long as accidents happen, you cannot drive. Bus companies, airlines, taxi companies and government owned transportation however, are exempt.

The role of government is not to ensure you don't die in a car accident. This is your risk alone and your responsibility as a safe driver. Yes, the government is responsible to ensure you understand the rules of the road and how to operate a motor vehicle before issuing your permit but before you argue this is the same as a vaccine, I will refute that now. You are still at risk of contracting and spreading Covid even with a vaccine. Your skills at being cognizant of your own health (driving ability) still falls on you. It is still your responsibility to not get sick, not others. You still need to give others the benefit of the doubt that they are safe despite knowing even those with a permit doesn't guarantee they are good drivers. A vaccine doesn't do that. Knowledge does. When you caught a cold, did you blame society? When you got in an accident, who's fault was it? It is not the government's job to ensure you don't get sick, only to make sure you are aware of the risks and mitigate them as they occur. If you don't want to die in a car accident, don't drive. If you don't want the coof, stay home.

The floor is yours.

Millions of us are out on the road at any given moment and the risk of dying in a crash is 1 in 130. When we get in the car everyday we do not assume we're going to get in a wreck, never mind die. We have rules of the road and every driver we encounter is given the benefit of the doubt that they are safe. In other words, 100% benefit of the doubt that the guy in front or behind you is not a complete idiot. However, 100% is not practical is it, yet we continue to drive. We know there is a risk of crashing despite your own confidence in your ability to navigate rush hour traffic. We know that we share the road with bad drivers, drunk drivers, new drivers, young drivers, old drivers, poor sighted drivers and those with medical impairments. Accidents are a common and daily occurrence. How does this relate to covid? Well, the parallels are pretty clear but inverted. The opposite seems to be true in the minds of the coof doomsdayers. Everyone is assumed to be infected and the responsibility lays with the government to ensure you are safe. This means, all infected people must be locked down regardless if they can transmit to others or not. Regardless if they show signs of being infected. Regardless if they are healthy. This includes you, the healthy doomsdayer. Applying this logic to driving we can expect this. No one can drive until there are no more accidents. You are no longer able to decide for yourself to take a risk by driving. It is now no longer your responsibility to be confident in your ability to navigate traffic, despite how good you are. As long as accidents happen, you cannot drive. Bus companies, airlines, taxi companies and government owned transportation however, are exempt. The role of government is not to ensure you don't die in a car accident. This is your risk alone and your responsibility as a safe driver. Yes, the government is responsible to ensure you understand the rules of the road and how to operate a motor vehicle before issuing your permit but before you argue this is the same as a vaccine, I will refute that now. You are still at risk of contracting and spreading Covid even with a vaccine. Your skills at being cognizant of your own health (driving ability) still falls on you. It is still your responsibility to not get sick, not others. You still need to give others the benefit of the doubt that they are safe despite knowing even those with a permit doesn't guarantee they are good drivers. A vaccine doesn't do that. Knowledge does. When you caught a cold, did you blame society? When you got in an accident, who's fault was it? It is not the government's job to ensure you don't get sick, only to make sure you are aware of the risks and mitigate them as they occur. If you don't want to die in a car accident, don't drive. If you don't want the coof, stay home. The floor is yours.

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[–] • 0 pt (edited )

I’m not saying there’s a connect between turn signals and seatbelts. I’m saying throw out the seatbelt argument for the reasons you stated and replace it with the turn signal argument because they fit with all of the qualifiers you used to disqualify seatbelts.

Basically, go back to the comment you made to me unpacking the seatbelt argument and replace the word seatbelt with turn signals and realize that it no longer works

Edit: basically this:

A fine is for non-compliance. A [turn signal] fine is non-compliance for [everyone’s] safety. A mask or lockdown fine is for non-compliance of everyone's safety.

Both are diametrically opposite of each other, an inversion as I stated in the op.

It’s no longer an inversion

[–] • 0 pt

But I didn't disqualify seatbelts. They are for your personal safety and not others. You still have a choice. A mask is for other's safety and not yours. An inversion of the logic.

It comes down to this. Is the government responsible for your health?

[–] • 0 pt

But turn signals are for others’ safety and not yours. There are countless other things you can be fined for that put others at risk, driving or otherwise

[–] • 0 pt

Made me think but I see where the gap is. Speeding, reckless driving, flouting regulations are indeed putting others at risk. Laws are made because solutions are unattainable. If we had solutions for everything, we wouldn't need laws. These laws are not there to eliminate crashes completely. That would be impossible, there will always be risk. But when I turn on a signal, am I doing it for everyone's safety or am I doing it for mine? When you change lanes are you thinking more about the drivers behind you or yourself? Can I safely change lanes without a signal? Absolutely. Does it affect anyone? Not unless you crash your car. Conclusion, Everyone's safety is only secondary but your responsibility to be safe ensures their safety. Masks don't equal seatbelts and turn signals don't equal masks. Masks don't ensure your safety even if you're responsible and neither does a signal.

[–] • 0 pt

Speeding, reckless driving, flouting regulations are indeed putting others at risk.

In germany, the highways have no speed limits and they have much lower rates of accidents than we do in the US. Speeding does not inherently put others at risk; you can be driving 120 down an empty stretch of highway and you’ll get ticketed.

If we had solutions for everything, we wouldn't need laws. These laws are not there to eliminate crashes completely

The vast majority of traffic laws do not make us safer and only exist to generate revenue for the state. If they suddenly stopped ticketing people for running red lights, would you start barreling through intersections without stopping? No, but you might come to stop at an empty intersection, realize it’s safe to go, and go. Which, right now, would easily get you a ticket. Which does nothing except generate revenue for the state.

Masks don't equal seatbelts and turn signals don't equal masks.

Since I don’t buy into masks or Covid, we need to hypothetically assume Covid is real and masks make sense for this argument. If not using a turn signal endangers others, and not using a mask endangers others, there is no difference between introducing a fine for one or the other