In your first paragraph, you claim that intelligence isn't *this* and isn't *that*. But you provide no explanation for **why** you claim that, nor do you make any attempt to provide a better definition yourself. Without at least one of those two components, those claims are rather hollow. > Civilisations can absolutely not be built without engineering btw, it’s the bedrock of civilisation. Agreed. I would add that you cannot devise or make use of engineering if you aren't able or willing to correctly recognize and apply patterns. I think I had already said much the same above? > You are also conflating pattern recognition with reason. They are not the same, despite some overlap. Being unable to see patterns that should be apparent is called **stupidity**. Rejecting patterns in spite of seeing them is called **delusion**. Seeing patterns where there are none is called **insanity**. All of these are a departure from reason. While they are not exactly the same, they were very closely related. It is impossible to reason, in a way that is meaningful and relevant to the world, without sound pattern recognition and application. In other words: Without intelligence, or with a corrupted intelligence (which we call madness). Franky, I get the feeling you're just disagreeing and splitting hairs for the sake of it, rather than having anything meaningful to add.