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I learned how to fight the old fashioned way. scrapping. where its a race against time to put the other guy down before he puts you down, because you are the only thing standing between them and what they want. but ive been in a couple fights where I had to stop my opponent because they were out of their minds. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them and add to their already massive list of problems. in those situations I walked away pretty banged up. any recommendations on groups, activities, martial arts, or philosophies that can help me in this? over the top violence is all ive known when it comes to such things. there has got to be a middle ground.

I learned how to fight the old fashioned way. scrapping. where its a race against time to put the other guy down before he puts you down, because you are the only thing standing between them and what they want. but ive been in a couple fights where I had to stop my opponent because they were out of their minds. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them and add to their already massive list of problems. in those situations I walked away pretty banged up. any recommendations on groups, activities, martial arts, or philosophies that can help me in this? over the top violence is all ive known when it comes to such things. there has got to be a middle ground.

(post is archived)

[–] 5 pts (edited )

The most suited method for hand to hand combat against a drunk relative for instance, or anybody you want to neutralize without resorting to devastating strikes, is brazilian/gracie jiujitsu, definitely

That being said, winning a fight is one thing, neutralizing your adversary is another

Neutralizing is generally easier (as in general rule, you always get exceptions). Typically you've put the situation in a lock, in a way where you can't attack, but in turn he can't attack too. If there's nobody to separate both of you (like a referee for instance) it can go on like that forever and you aren't going to be the one going tired first

...

Now the problem is that there's probably no bjj or graciejj club in your area, not even an mma club

Then there's judo, it's often available, and a combination of boxing (not even thai or kick boxing) and judo is a vastly underrated combo, it's a pretty effective mix and you often have a local boxing club

https://youtu.be/Y10ZWGNlMz4?t=308

...

In the end you don't need to master 36000 techniques, it's rare to have to deal with a fucking mma champion, most people don't block shit so it's basically open bar for anything as you stated "its a race against time to put the other guy down before he puts you dow"

You need to master 1 to 3 approach/technique

...

Your worst enemy really is you burning all your gas too fast, btw

If physical condition isn't everything... It certainly is a lot to begin with

[–] 3 pts (edited )

Seconding this guy's advice that:

Your worst enemy really is you burning all your gas too fast, btw.

You and your opponent will both experience a massive adrenaline dump. Resist the urge to spend all your energy in the first couple minutes. Get in good cardio shape, make the other guy spend his gas first. Most people in a fight 'will' spend their gas in the first couple minutes. If you've still got yours when they run out of steam, you're in a major position of strength, regardless of any martial techniques you may or may not know.

I'll take slight issue with the recommendation for BJJ/Jiujitsu as the best street fighting technique. Ask anyone with real BJJ training who knows the difference between tournament and street fighting -- they'll tell you it's best to keep the fight off the ground in a street fight. On the ground, you can get bitten, eye-gouged, stabbed, and kicked by your opponent's buddies. And since you're likely to be on concrete or asphalt, even in the best of outcomes you're going to get ripped up. With careful technique, you'd be surprised how effective you can be at keeping the fight on its feet.

So, boxing -- especially Muay Thai boxing -- is the absolute best first line of defense.

That said, if the fight does go to the ground, BJJ and wrestling are far and away the most important disciplines to know. I'd suggest starting with wrestling, since you can learn the entire body of wrestling knowledge in a short time (mastering it is another thing), and wrestling basics translate directly to more advanced Jiujitsu techniques.

Lastly, to parrot the advice you've always heard, if it's at all possible, avoid fighting. No matter what you know, you can always end up on the wrong end of a street fight -- and this can, and often will, result in permanent damage to your delicate flesh. This is especially true when you don't know who you're up against -- or what's in their pocket. I live with a permanently fucked up eye, a crooked ring finger, limited wrist flexibility, and a ridiculously crooked nose due to stupid fights that, with a couple of exceptions, I could have avoided. Believe me, if I could go back, I'd so happily swallow my pride and walk away when that was an option.

The other reason to walk away is that even when you win, you can lose big time. Years ago a drunk jackass flat-out sucker punched me in a bar -- he ended up with a massive gash on his face that required a shitload of stitches. Long story short, this douche had the temerity to drag me through the courts for a over a year. His girlfriend lied admirably and managed to convince a judge I'd started the fight. Had to pay his very expensive medical bills and was lucky to get away with a prayer for judgment.

And I've been lucky -- I could tell other tales of folks I know whose outcomes were far worse.

So, boxing/Muay Thai combined with wrestling/BJJ are arguably the best fighting techniques you can learn. But if you can help it, don't fight. Far too much risk for far too little reward. Be cool, live long.

[–] 1 pt

>I'll take slight issue with the recommendation for BJJ/Jiujitsu as the best street fight technique.

OP isn't looking for the best street fight technique

He's looking for a method to neutralize an adversary without resorting to beating the living shit out of him. Your typical drunk uncle at a christmas party

[–] 1 pt (edited )

Stand corrected -- thanks. Will leave my comments up for posterity -- also because my ultimate advice is to walk away -- though, you're right, that's evidently not exactly what OP is looking for. He does mention martial arts as an item he'd be interested in exploring, but in context, I suspect he means as a kind of physical means to de-escalate a conflict.

Not sure if it's much help, but here's a couple articles on conflict de-escalation techniques:

Good luck, OP. And congratulations on looking for ways to avoid fighting to resolve conflict.

[–] 1 pt

wow......I tried that out with my wife. then she tried it on me and It took me a disconcerting amount of effort for me to break free. she's quite soft. were both intrigued. thank you!

[–] 0 pt

Give a try to this one, but careful with that https://poal.co/s/Fight/149490

The leverage effect is quite funny

[–] 0 pt (edited )

Try this one https://youtu.be/mY8Edm4xrKw?t=70

Even if she's smaller than you she can easily put you way off balance with that

Best served with your second hand going between his legs instead of doing nothing

[–] 1 pt

this one was quite a bit of fun! she did manage to escape my half-assed headlock. I think she's finally starting to understand the difference between modern "empowerment" (which is really just loud bitching) and being able to say "no" and have the power to enforce it.

[–] 0 pt

Jeet Kune Do. Bruce Lee incorporated a huge list of styles. Ninjitsu is useful for sneaky shit other forms don't teach and has blocks that instant nerve attack. If they can't feel the arm they won' swing it again. You definitely need more than one if you want to survive various scenarios. BJJ is excellent one on one. In a fight where you might be attacked while on the ground not so much. Sill it excels well past the cookie cutter karate here in America. You really need a couple moves but train well and hard at them. Escapes are really useful when grappling an opponent.

[–] 0 pt

Jeet kune do has mostly degenerated at this point, bruce lee gave guidance and didn't live long enough to properly train enough instructors

Ninjutsu is mostly bullshit and historically ninjas are a japanese theater invention. And we're talking deception, assassination, and spying ultimately if it comes to "ninjutsu", hardly suited for OP

Again look in the OP, he has specifically asked for a method in a duel where you don't want to mutilate/annihilate/murder your adversary

[–] 0 pt

I don't take any system seriously anymore. I just take the good and cast the bad away. If someone throws a kick or punch. The nerve attack system used in Ninjitsu is very effective. A grappler will tear them up. Most forms of karate will be beat by a limited knowledge of BJJ. But they are only really effective one on one as they trap themselves. But with advance skill in anything the more of an arsenal you have. It's better to train in defense to the most common attacks that fuckers are going to try on you. A front snapkick to the jaw is effective if you can pull it off. People don't see it coming and don't look for it. But it takes time and stretching to pull a good kick off. A thumb to the eyesocket is effective against anything if your quick.

You "Pity The Fool". Thats not a bad thing....kinda noble if you ask me. You cant beat character into someone. Strike first and strike hard....but a person with superior perspective knows if its truly a challenge.

[–] 1 pt

the only superiority I've ever had was power, speed, intensity, and meanness. in some situations those can be a detriment. i'd like to learn to subdue someone without leaving a mark.

Sounds like you want BJJ to me. YouTube any Gracie fight ever....lol.

[–] 0 pt

awesome! i'm definitely going to look into this! if nothing else its a great way to get my wife to rassle around.

[–] 1 pt
[–] 0 pt

thank you! good to see you're still kicking my friend! of course that indicates that you might be loyal to the wrong folks. but theres still time for you to come to your senses.

[–] 0 pt

of course that indicates that you might be loyal to the wrong folks. but theres still time for you to come to your senses.

I can't read your mind.

[–] 0 pt

oh, I get it. from what I've gathered it looks like the communists are using the corona virus as a cover to round up political dissidents. I don't know how far they've come in the process but this has been going on for a few weeks. in such things speed is of the essence. so if you've made it this long you are either exceptionally lucky, covered your tracks exceedingly well/ highly intelligent, or complicit. the latter possibility is the statistical likelihood. if this is indeed the case then you may not know that evil people and forces are behind this program. you have to judge people by their fruit, and not by the things they say. and thousands of dead is very bad fruit. you always have a choice.

[–] 0 pt

you should be able to. I leave it wide open because I like friends to come visit.

[–] 1 pt

Learn to do a rear naked choke.

If you can get behind the person without them noticing, you can knock them out in seconds without any trauma. When they're being choked they usually don't think about hitting back just trying to pry your hands off, so there's little chance of damage to yourself.

I've seen this work plenty of times when people get out of hand, weather drunk or on drugs.

[–] 1 pt

Not just a rear naked choke, but Bas Rutten's rear naked choke!

[–] 1 pt

Bas Rutten is a beast. Are you going to tell him he can't have the move?

[–] 1 pt

No way. Bas is the man. If you're going to tell someone to learn that choke you tell them to do it the was Bas does it.

[–] 1 pt

woof. that's definitely a guy that would have to be handled from a distance if he turned bad. definitely wouldn't get within arms reach of him! that's good stuff, thank you!

[–] 1 pt

Figure 8 choke from the front is also good. Just gotta remember to tuck your head into theirs so the cant head butt.

[–] 0 pt

I've never heard the term figure 8 choke before. Is that the same as a guillotine?

Find any combat art dojo near you that will run regular, full contact sparring. After you get the snot kicked out of you a few times, you will stop caring about hurting other people when you're in a serious, life-threatening altercation.

Since you have some regular "old fashioned" moves, I recommend adding Judo. Learn breakfalls, some basic takedowns and some ways of "stopping" an opponent like chokes or basic joint locks.

The key is to harness the raw principals which is to keep yourself safe (minimize danger), use minimal energy (you'd be surprised how easy it is to blow your load only to get overpowered after) and "stop" (disable) your opponent as quickly as possible. The longer you are in a fight, the longer you are in mortal danger.

If you're dealing with drunk or stoned people, or hobos (people that are "dirty" or can give you a disease if touching them) you might instead want to get a sidearm. You can stop someone without causing too much permanent damage and don't have to come close.

Don't fall for any of these tasers or knives as defense, as many say they end up with them being used against them. That said, find a 1-day knife fighting seminar to learn to handle yourself if someone pulls a knife on you. This way, if you take someones knife away you can use the knife without cutting yourself up.

Regarding not being able to bring yourself to "hurt" them, consider again the longer you're in the fight the longer you and they are in mortal danger. Stop it as quickly as possible and KO'ing someone or ripping their knee out (14lb of pressure sideways is all it takes) will also stop them from having to take more damage from you. In other words, be in it to totally win in the quickest and most terrifying fashion, or you'll fashion yourself as a victim.

[–] 1 pt

thank you very much for sharing your wisdom on this.