Yes. But you're just moving the issue now. What day of this year more closely corresponds to the Annunciation? The one that is 365.25 X 2021, or the one that is 365.2425 X 2021?
Let me put it another way. We both believe Christ was born on December 25. That is, four days after the Winter Solstice. The Winter Solstice is an astronomically discernible day - the shortest day of the year.
So if Christ was born four days after the shortest day of Anno Domini 1, then would we not be more faithfully celebrating His birth in AD 2020 by celebrating it four days after the shortest day of Anno Domini 2020, rather than by celebrating it 17 days after the shortest day of Anno Domini 2020?
My honest opinion is that God is more concerned that the Faithful are of like mind with each other, and at peace, than whether the days of observance align with certain celestial events.
These are important, don’t get me wrong. At some point, for example, the Church agreed to move to a Solar, rather than Lunar, calendar. Mere obstructionism isn’t a Traditionally defensible position.
The Lord gave us these heavenly bodies for signs and seasons, not as excuses to fight with one another.
As you can imagine, I’ve had plenty of opportunities in my life to fight over calendars :)
My honest opinion is that God is more concerned that the Faithful are of like mind with each other, and at peace, than whether the days of observance align with certain celestial events.
These are important, don’t get me wrong. At some point, for example, the Church agreed to move to a Solar, rather than Lunar, calendar. Mere obstructionism isn’t a Traditionally defensible position.
The Lord gave us these heavenly bodies for signs and seasons, not as excuses to fight with one another.
As you can imagine, I’ve had plenty of opportunities in my life to fight over calendars :)
EDIT: I forgot to tag anybody in this so I copypasted it into CHIRO’s comment.
My honest opinion is that God is more concerned that the Faithful are of like mind with each other, and at peace, than whether the days of observance align with certain celestial events.
Obviously I agree universal agreement in doctrine is more important than universal consistency of ceremonial matters - although among ceremonial matters, dates seem high on the list.
But as you also acknowledge, these things are important. It is true the Jews followed a lunar calendar. This perhaps made more sense under the Old Covenant, when only one people were under the law. With the New Covenant, and the entire world being expected to follow the law, a solar, rather than lunar, calendar seems to make more sense - a date relative to a solstice is more universally applicable than a lunar event (Aussies see the Man in the Moon upside down, and so have "reversed" phases, etc...such a mess). And so if we are going to follow a solar calendar, it seems best to implement one where "calendar drift" is as minimized as possible.
This is a big problem I have with the Orthodox (not to get polemic): they seem to have a tendency to reject good ideas or even doctrines simply by virtue of coming from the Catholic Church. I don't know how well you know Orthodox history, but I've heard (from a convert from Eastern Orthodoxy to Catholicism, no less (youtu.be)), that prior to the infallible declaration of the Immaculate Conception, the Orthodox were sympathetic to the idea, or outright believed it, but after the declaration it became something they opposed. Likewise with the Gregorian Calendar - it is an objectively a better option than the Julian calendar, but the Orthodox won't implement it "because it comes from Rome".
Anyway, our disagreements are far less severe than they are between ourselves and basically everyone else.
Likewise with the Gregorian Calendar - it is an objectively a better option than the Julian calendar, but the Orthodox won't implement it "because it comes from Rome".
There are a few reasons I continue to observe according to the Julian Calendar - beyond the obvious one that it’s what my Bishop is doing.
In the 1920s (exact date escapes me atm) Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople forced the Greek Orthodox to either accept the innovation, or suffer excommunication. He wasn’t concerned with whether or not this might erupt in schism. His reasons for doing so were political, rather than religious or spiritual.
Be any of that as it may, I know he was wrong to do this, because he wreaked havoc on the Liturgical Menaion Cycle. As a matter of fact, he ruined the Apostle’s Fast, which under the Innovation sometimes lasted only two days, which is specifically prohibited in one of the Church Canons. The Innovation is therefore Anti-Canonical.
Long story short, there just hasn’t been a good, Orthodox attempt to reconcile the Menaion with astronomical events. You believe it’s “objectively better”, but only if you’re willing to abandon numerous observances we received as part of our Pious Tradition. Theoretically, it would be possible, maybe, to figure all of that out. But so far, no-one has managed to do so in a way that doesn’t scandalize the Faithful - for good reason - though maybe that will change one day.
Likewise with the Gregorian Calendar - it is an objectively a better option than the Julian calendar, but the Orthodox won't implement it "because it comes from Rome". There are a few reasons I continue to observe according to the Julian Calendar - beyond the obvious one that it’s what my Bishop is doing.
In the 1920s (exact date escapes me atm) Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople forced the Greek Orthodox to either accept the innovation, or suffer excommunication. He wasn’t concerned with whether or not this might erupt in schism. His reasons for doing so were political, rather than religious or spiritual.
Be any of that as it may, I know he was wrong to do this, because he wreaked havoc on the Liturgical Menaion Cycle. As a matter of fact, he ruined the Apostle’s Fast, which under the Innovation sometimes lasted only two days, which is specifically prohibited in one of the Church Canons. The Innovation is therefore Anti-Canonical.
Long story short, there just hasn’t been a good, Orthodox attempt to reconcile the Menaion with astronomical events. You believe it’s “objectively better”, but only if you’re willing to abandon numerous observances we received as part of our Pious Tradition. Theoretically, it would be possible, maybe, to figure all of that out. But so far, no-one has managed to do so in a way that doesn’t scandalize the Faithful - for good reason - though maybe that will change one day.
(post is archived)