> Your thesis is that beyond the individual, the interconnections, relationships and systems built on that are what ought to be disbelieved? It's not just indivdual. It's just nature dude. The flow of life. We are all in it. I recommend to abandon the tendancy to narcistically assume this is all a simulation emmanating from your head. To paraphrase another Poal-friend we are all individual ONEs within ALL; the sum of every ONE is ALL thus the self sustaining nature of our ecosystem. Nature communicates to us (itself) via the senses so that we may be inspired to act (flow forward). These are physical-world things you can see, touch, taste, feel, measure and thus verify by yourself and repeat in your own implementation. You smell roses. You can control the flow of water. You can create and measure radio signals. You cannot touch 'outer space'. You cannot verify so called 'gravity' (density on the other hand is easy to verify and can explain everything gravity does with the convenient exception of the 'outer space' stuff). 'Money' is thus no different. Space, gravity and money are concepts. Engrained, indoctrinated into your mind with such persistence you accept them as 'reality'. But these things, because of the absence of any physical world repeatable observable verifiable implementation, are just that: concepts, at best: fiction. It's not that gold coins or Bitcoins are not 'real' in the sense that they may have some practical or game-like usage in the context of human communication (though Bitcoin is arguably just a concept since it does not exist in physical reality only as a digital construct represented in code) but that the concepts in of itself do not directly meet any of your basic human needs; therefore it is not natural, therefore it has no real meaning other than what you give it. Again, you cannot 'eat' money. You cannot eat an idea. You cannot eat 'the past'. An apple on the other hand has tangible meaning because it represents life sustenance; energy for your body to survive another day. And not just your body but any other body in this ecosystem with an appetite. Life and nature's manifestations to support it are real. Fixed beliefs ie- made made constructs and fictions inhertently do not support life and are thus not real, and thus represent cancers in our ecosystem (and your mind) that should most probably be avoided. The flow of nature is about sustaining itself, you are apart of nature and thus should flow with it not against it. The parasite wants you stuck in one place so you are easy to feed on; enter the endless bombardment of man-made ideas, conflicts, constructs and systems to 'keep you in place'. Of course, the flow is cyclic. There cannot be flow without loss (ie- loss to start the flow, loss to end the flow so flow can flow again). You are born, and will die. You will go with the flow (exercise, eat healthy, live based on your needs in tune with nature - and you may also engage in fixed beliefs, indulge in wants, and degenerate behavior. Going against the flow simply represents loss that will make room for more flow ie- new generations to replace you, or a parasite that will feed on the resources you make available by foolishly ignoring what nature made available to you all the while you were pursuing 'money' or other fictions planted/corrupted by parasites. > Do you believe this conversation is happening? Or do you believe this is a figment of your imagination? Are you a figment of my imagination? The conversation is happening. Just as you use money when you go to a store and engage in trade. It's not that human constructs are not useful but it's important to make the distinction between what is real and what is in the mind. Is digital communication needed? Mankind seemed to have made it a few millennia without... interesting tangent here that digital / computer / machine based technology may represent the single greatest threat to our existence ie- helping to grant authority/power into the hands of humans instead of nature as it has traditionally been in 'the past'... We cannot eat apples 12 hours a day; every waking moment. The cyclic flow of life/death, needs/wants, joy/pain, comfort/fear, productivity/procrastination is what defines these things; if there was only one linear direction to flow there would be nothing to distinguish everything else from everything and thus nothing to be inspired (or to fear) thus... stagnation. Perma-death. My friend tries not to 'theorize' but it seems there is a theory underlying all of this and that is that nature has segregated itself into individual units because it NEEDs to create ways for its energy to flow to sustain the flow of energy. There was no 'creator' we are simply the result of the intent of energy to keep flowing; turns out an organic body with a coherent mind are useful vassals to shelter a high powered form of energy; its why you get a boner in the morning. Good chat new P-fren; I didn't skip over the other inquiry in your post but that's all I'm inspired to write for now !