WelcomeUser Guide
ToSPrivacyCanary
DonateBugsLicense

©2025 Poal.co

723

(post is archived)

[–] 0 pt

Church is not a requirement for salvation. It is a gathering of followers to hone, perfect, and strengthen their bond with God. All of the actions you just called for can be done in the presence of other followers within a church, without the need of catholic or orthodoxy priesthood to oversee it. IN FACT! Most of the actions you just called for, Paul through his letters called for the churches to perform on his behalf as a collective unit. Prayer for a person, confession and excommunication of a person, doing good works, listening to the wisdom of elders (Someone who is older and more experienced in the faith, NOT a person with claims to being more holy or a special officer of God). But the church itself, baptism, they are all outward expressions of an inward faith. In fact, the scripture speaks about the actions of the church itself and what was performed by it was a group body, but no where can I find a single mention of a pope, nor a singular individual (Save Peter, more on that in a second) who was to be the sole command leader of the church. In Acts, when they send out the 7, they were sent out as more of a clerical, and church support role, not in any specific leadership capacity outside of the operation of their churches.

2 The Twelve summoned the whole company of the disciples and said, “It would not be right for us to give up preaching the word of God to wait on tables. 3 Brothers and sisters, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom we can appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 This proposal pleased the whole company. So they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a convert from Antioch. 6 They had them stand before the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

In the case of Peter, you are missing some very important facts. First: When Christ turned the keys over to him, it was done with expressed purpose of bringing the church to fruition, and to plant the seeds for a world wide spread of the knowledge of Jesus and his miracles. The same with the Apostles. The Apostles are direct witnesses of Jesus Christ who were given rights and privileges by Jesus Himself. The Holy Spirit was the later foretold Helper that would come and inbue all followers with a temple of God in their hearts. But again: Peter and the Apostles were select indivduals with select purpose. This can be clearly seen in how Matthias was chosen. Acts 1 21 and 22

21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

This was a requirement because the people who were planting the church needed to be first hand witnesses, and to have received the blessing of Christ during his earthly rein. This is actually why some feel that Paul's ministry was invalid, as he was blessed after the fact and was never a witness to the risen Christ. I do not subscribe to this personally, as what Paul experienced was a miracle. But you'll also STILL notice: When Paul was sent for healing, he was not send to a specific priest or pope. He was sent to a devout disciple, Ananias. Even during the healing, Ananias himself calls Paul "Brother", a word that denotes someone on equal footing.

The idea that the curtain tearing means you just need a relationship with Christ is steeped in pride, willful ignorance, and a total lack of connection to Christian thought prior to the mid 18th century.

Martin Luther firmly disagrees with you, as do every other Protestant since his teaching. And this all happened several hundred years prior to the 18th century.

[–] 0 pt

Focusing just on the end, show me a quote from any theologian prior to 1700 that says or alludes to the tearing of the curtain meaning all you need is a relationship with Jesus. I will wait...

[–] 0 pt (edited )

Bible itself. After the veil was torn, the jews themselves began to beat their chests, because they knew exactly what that tearing meant. The entrance to God had been sundered and thrown away. Also of note was that no early Christians offered sacrifices or performed temple rituals. Why? Because Jesus was the redeemer who did away with that necessity. if you're interested, I can post some articles about how jews and Christians from that era interpreted the veil being torn. Suffice to say: the jews were rattled because it was perceived to mean there was no need for priests and temple rituals.

So why are we returning to a Catholic/Orthodox system of ritual performed by high priests? The early church did not perform such ceremonies. In fact, it is said in Hebrews 4:14-16:

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Let us approach God's throne? Did he mention an intercession person? Did he mention a priest to perform for us? Approach His throne. Have a relationship with your Lord, Jesus, who understands all you go through in life.

It's literally said in the bible, brother.

Edit: Small correction: My studies years ago told me that Hebrews was authored by Peter. This is apparently in dispute now, and no one is exactly sure on the authorship. The scriptures message still stands.

[–] 0 pt

You keep shifting the argument. What's the matter, can't find someone in 1700 years of Christian history that agrees with you? I guess you don't believe they read the Bible. It sure would be a shame if you had to admit the canon of scripture is a tradition and therfore affirm that tradition is binding and you can't use scripture alone to define your faith.