You're not getting what I'm saying here. My goal remains the same, my factual beliefs regarding observable facts remain unchanged, but my opinions on what is going on in the minds of us and them is the thing I've kind of reflected upon and came to a conclusion regarding.
I'm saying I've thought about things a bit, and realized one thing.
You claim that you are scared of them because they are a threat to your people, and that they are out to destroy you, they say the same about you.
In both cases stress and fear are preventing communication, because alternative motivations are suspected.
In both sides use talk of hating the other group or wishing a misfortune upon them, which is likely expressing frustration at certain individuals within that group who are causing issues for you and your desired goals, as proof of this fear being justified.
Maybe both of you are in a similar situation, maybe the issue is that both of you have some pieces of truth and some misconceptions as well, maybe the problems of the world are caused by people with good intent and misconceptions that lead to actions that turn out badly in some way for some people.
I'm not centrist or civnat, but I can see the possibility that both the far right and mainstream left are majority composed of people who are scared of the other side, and that at the very least the left are misinformed, we need to allay the fears of the other side in order to open them up to communication, and from there, we might be able to engage in negotiations.
For me, saying things like the types of things that got me in trouble were just a means of me showing how I understood the feelings of the others on here, it was a lot of talk about things that it would be understood that no one was seriously considering, but for them, it was a real and terrifying statement of intent or incitement of others into performing these acts.
If I was being misunderstood by them and it was producing a fear in them of a threat that I did not pose, and that the people I was talking to did not pose, then then maybe there are those who are like us in this respect on the other end of the pond.
I want to know the truth, and I want others to know it as well.
I think my biggest problem is that when I see people not having a good time, I want to help them, and I especially want to help those who aren't being attended to enough by others, I think you guys are getting a bad reputation and that you have legitimate grievances, now im trying to reevaluate the whole situation.
I'm just really stressed out, give me some time to think.
Some people, cultures and ideologies cannot be negotiated or reasoned with. Narcissists will always manipulate and abuse those around them to remain in control. They will lle, gaslight, demonise and stir up conflict, then they will rewrite history to make themselves the good guy. They will do all of this firmly believing they are right and they were always at war with eastasia. Anyone saying otherwise must be destroyed.
You cannot negotiate with a delusional person or group and expect to produce peace from common understanding. The only solution is to distance yourself from them and leave them to their delusions. Any openness or attempt to compromise will be recognised as a weakness and used against you.
Lets put down what we want and what they at least nominally claim to want, then we can look at the essentials of the goals on each side, and try to have a conversation across the aisle to see whether there is a way that both sides could get what they want.
Think about what they see when they read your comments, they see you calling for blood, and take that literally as your intent, to them, that is your central goal, everything else is the means to that as your end. You seem to have a strikingly similar opinion of them.
But the true essence of your position is the removal of threats to your people, and theirs is the removal of threats to their own, both you and they claim to feel like their people are subject to injustices in this society, and seek to correct those injustices, both feel like the other side is ignorant and uncaring about the hardships their side experiences.
Even if it's on the surface, and it's only a possibility that there can be some discussion, I think we could put out that we aren't a threat, and that we honestly care for our people instead of wishing harm on others, and that our people have legitimate and genuine grievances to address. This is still us doing advocacy, but we are making a show of trying to address miscommunication and misconceptions between us and them
even if it's as you say, and we don't get a dialog with them, the fact that we made a show of the attempt means that the third parties looking on will see us as the more reasonable side of the debate, that alone could shake up worldviews and get us new recruits.
I want independence. A narcissist will never willingly allow someone to escape their control. They will tear everything down to avoid that happening.
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