Kind of sucks, you take the vaccine, get ill from the vaccine, then get ill from the virus anyway.
Maybe this explains some portion of the 5%-10% of people for whom it is not effective. From my research, it looks like a overly-strong immune response is one of the dangers. Even Moderna admits that the immune response is the biggest challenge to these mRNA based vaccines.
may have some thoughts.
Per 's comment, the linked study in my post from yesterday evening would support:
He has the theory that if the immune system creates antibodies against these proteins, the antibodies will help the virus after infection.
In fact, that was precisely what my prediction would be. It was Helena who pointed out the ADE issue to me, whereas I had focused on the TH2 imbalance suggested by the study I posted. The elevated TH2-mediated changes indicate, to me, a maladaptive response. TH2 processes are not evolved for eradicating viral loads, and instead I think they could simply cause ineffective allergic responses. Even ignoring the hugely negative impacts this would have on the lungs with sufficient exposure, it would also cause your immune system to be less effective at dealing with virus load, period.
This was the conclusion of my post, essentially. I believe that the vaccine is effectively going to make people vulnerable to the true bug, whether that winds up being a variant of Coronviridae or some other threat.
To me, this vaccine is not the death threat, directly. It's indirectly causing changes in your natural immunity which themselves will be the threat.
I'd highlight to anyone with an open enough mind about this to consider the parallels between this and the immunodeficiency of HIV. I've considered before that these effects could be the result of HIV treatments themselves (i.e. we are creating the immune deficiency), or that this current vaccine could actually be delivering a related protein to something in HIV which disrupts immunity.
That's pushing the envelope a bit, I know. But simply consider that if this were possible, it could mean that the effects were sexually transmittable, or at the very least heritable. I wouldn't stake my life on these claims, at all. But I think they're important to consider.
Remember that very early on we were told that this COVID-19 virus had the exact same spike proteins as HIV. What are we to think about that? Why does this Covid variant have this Frankenstein-like character of possessing HIV spike proteins? Hmmm.
I remember that there was an allegation early on that the COV19 virus contained HIV DNA sequences, but never saw it verified. The linked Australian story said they used HIV binding DNA in their vaccine.
The problem I see with with this theory: If the immune system responds to the vaccine, it produces maybe 200 different antibodies against the spike protein of the virus. If the immune system fights the whole virus, it produces the same antibodies and some thousand different antibodies more against the rest of the virus. So how could it be that the subset of antibodies is more dangerous than the full package? An if the virus can produce antibodies that help him to invade the body, why don't we see many reinfections?
we were told that this COVID-19 virus had the exact same spike proteins as HIV
No, the spike protein is the part that binds to the cell, this is unique in SARS-CoV-2. Some Indian scientists told us that they have found sequences of the HIV in the payload of SARS-CoV-2. But we would have heard more of it if it had been reproducible.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7141560/
Perhaps not identical, but I still find this striking, although I'm not a virologist. I am happy to be corrected. I was not aware of the Indian researcher's claim; I was never referring to the core genome of the virus, as I was unaware that claim had been made.
To your first question, I simply don't know. I don't know what the mRNA sequence in the vaccine is encoding, so I don't know the nature of the epitope that is going to be presented, or whether that's to target antibody formation against spike proteins, or what. Some of your language confused me a bit, as far as the virus producing antibodies. The issue with the ADE scenario is that the antibodies our WBCs produce are actually acting as vectors for the virus to basically live cryptically within the immune cells, evading elimination.
As far as the information I had been originally commenting on, I also don't know the mechanism which causes the increased TH2 type response. Could it be ADE influencing that? Sure.
(post is archived)