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[–] • 1 pt

There's nothing about an open border that suggests welfare or elected positions though...

[–] • 1 pt

Yeah that's the thing. In practice, we've been unable to separate them.

[–] • 1 pt

Open boarders were not a problem before federal government invented income tax as means of slavery, control, transfer of wealth. 1/3 of all immigrants who arrived through Ellis Island returned to their homeland because they couldn't make it in America.

[–] • 0 pt

I don't know about that, but assuming you're correct, it is one now. Plus now businesses and landlords can't protect themselves by discriminating against the barbarians.

[–] • 0 pt

But in principle open borders are rational and in everyone's interest. If i owned something productive i don't care where people are coming from to work. And i dont wanna worry about lines and permissions to reenter my own homeland or host friends from abroad.

[–] • 1 pt

See, those were my arguments too. What I wasn't looking at is the difference between different sub-species of human. Humans are not fungible. Some humans are particularly malignant on average (bantu, central americans etc).

I'd be fine with race based open borders, kinda, but even that can cause problems. East Asians, for instance, are low crime, high IQ, civilized humans, but commie-fake-china (Taiwan is the real China, and also NAM'BA WAN!!) is a hostile nation-state which has the first or second most prolific spy-network in the world. How to deal with that?

From a solipsistic standpoint, open borders make sense. No one has the right to keep me out of any geographic area. But I'm a civilized human, and I'm not going to rape any native inhabitant, cut off any heads, steal from anyone etc.

[–] • 1 pt

Borders have utility even without welfare. Different groups of people are different in ways that no amount of civics lessons can redesign. Millions of people from one place won't suddenly be the same as the people they are replacing. They stay different. There is no magic dirt that changes them. You lose your culture and nation to open borders no matter how economically beneficial it may seem to be.