Let's dig into the data. No studies were cited. Just other articles from the same low-brow news groups. Red flag, immediately.
They used Ontario Canada. A province in Canada. Instead of the entire country of Canada or multiple countries. Another major red flag.
Next MAJOR red flag is the data does not match their words.
As per the information, there seem to be 1,327 ‘Fully vaccinated cases’ in hospitals as of January 7, contrasting to only 441 ‘Unvaccinated cases,'” reported Great Game India. “There were 100 patients inside the hospital for ‘partially vaccinated cases.'”
“There are 119 ‘unvaccinated cases,’ 17 ‘partially vaccinated cases,’ and 106 ‘fully vaccinated cases’ in Ontario’s ICU … The great proportion of patients who screened positive for COVID in Ontario originate from ‘fully vaccinated’ individuals, according to the data.”
Here's the actual data taken directly from the site: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data
What does this image show us?
ICU: Unvaccinated: 157 Partially Vaccinated: 19 Fully Vaccinated: 167
Hospital but not ICU: Unvaccinated: 674 Partially Vaccinated: 163 Fully Vaccinated: 1813
What percent are fully vaccinated in Canada? 77.8%. What precent are unvaccinated? 16%
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=CAN
Are the unvaccinated over, even, or under represented in the above hospital data? Unvaccinated in ICU: 45.7%. They are overrepresented in ICUs by 2.86 times. Unvaccinated in the the Hospital but not ICU: 25.4%. They are overrepresented in the non-ICU hospital data by 1.59 times.
Correct, non-dishonest conclusion: the unvaccinated are grossly overrepresented in the ICUs and hospitals in Ontario Canada.
I agree with all your red flags and appreciate the breakdown. Thoughts on what the data means? The claim that the jab prevents hospitalization is true?
I looked at their definitions of "unvaccinated" and it does include those who received the shot within 14 days. So, I can get the jab, get really sick, in a car crash or suffer an adverse event and I'd show up in the unvaccinated column.
I know the arguments for this (The shot's not effective until 14 days so we can't count them as vaccinated yet), but considering Fauci and the gang say that most adverse events happen in the first few days of the jab, its misleading to just say vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
Is there any way to see how many of those in the ICU and Hospital labeled unvaccinated had a shot less then 14 days before admission? This would give us a clearer picture, and the absence of it can give ammo to those already skeptical of the whole narrative.
The claim that the jab prevents hospitalization is true?
It does. It prevents sever COVID-19 and deaths quite significantly. But efficacy wanes after 6 months requiring boosters. And those boosters are less effective than when we first started using the vaccines for Alpha. It's obvious why: it has significantly mutated so the spike protein targets are different enough to make the vaccines less effective.
So, I can get the jab, get really sick, in a car crash or suffer an adverse event and I'd show up in the unvaccinated column.
Yup. Based on how vaccines work, (not just the COVID-19 ones), it takes a while for the antibodies to start getting produced and for your body to "learn" the antigens to produce the antibodies for. The 14 day thing is not a new thing in the immunology world. However, it is quite dishonest to think it is 0 or 1 as some pro-vaxxers would have you believe. The real data showed 10 days was enough for most people. They extend it to 14 days to catch he outliers (I don't have the justification for this but it is usually something like ("3 sigma at 10 days but we go for 4 sigma by day 14).
I know the arguments for this (The shot's not effective until 14 days so we can't count them as vaccinated yet), but considering Fauci and the gang say that most adverse events happen in the first few days of the jab, its misleading to just say vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
Yes, first 2 weeks, most adverse events happen. We have data on vaccines that show adverse events happening as long as 6 weeks later (I forget that vaccine, it was in the 1970s, I believe).
Is there any way to see how many of those in the ICU and Hospital labeled unvaccinated had a shot less then 14 days before admission?
I think the UK was tracking that data in their weekly tracking report. A "less than 14 days" data set. I think. Don't quote me on that. But it is a very small group and the numbers were not significant compared to the fully or unvaxxed.
This would give us a clearer picture, and the absence of it can give ammo to those already skeptical of the whole narrative.
I agree. We should have setup data collection, AFTER the Phase III trials passed, for the broader public. And been tracking all this data every step of the way. A lot of the antivax arguments could have been resolved had they done this. A lot of the pro-vax arguments for the vax could have been debunked, too. The pro-vaxxers pretend this is the end all be all for fighting COVID-19 when it is only 1 of 6 major tools. The most important tool is diet and exercise. In fact, obesity is so strongly linked that the higher your BMI, the risk of death increases exponentially. Don't quote me on this one, either, but I believe, when I was looking at the dat, if your BMI is 40 and you get COVID-19, your risk of death is over 25%. Not quite a coin flip but approaching a coin flip. To me, that's crazy as hell and scary as hell.
Great comments and intelligent questions. I appreciate them.
If you find some good data, please make a post and/or tag me. I'm following this closely. I like debunking the pro and anti-vaxxers on this.
Another interesting note on the Ontario website is the chart tracking cases by vaccination status. It appears clear that the fully vaccinated have the highest cases load per 100,000 compared to partial or unvaccinated. So, the shot definitely does not stop Covid and potentially makes one more susceptible?
I can't find that metric. Which drop down did you use under the "Metrics" column?
Closest I can find is:
"Vaccine doses, cases, ICU patients, and deaths"
It would be an AMAZING metric if we had data that tracked lab confirmed positive cases per 100k, by vaccination status.
King County (here in the US) tracks a very similar metric and here's their current result (much larger data sets than Ontario):
My guess as to why it is so much work in the US compared to Canada: we are fatter than folks in Ontario? That's just a guess. I don't have the data.
And so you know I'm approaching this honestly, I strongly believe we will NEVER be able to vaccinated our way out of this. Ever. It mutates every 3-6 months and the cycle starts over.
Right below the data on ICU and Hospitalization: "COVID-19 cases by vaccination status" and then has an interactive graph that shows number per 100,000.
(post is archived)