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Which president was the best in your view?

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I like Thomas Jefferson the most based on his policies and political positions. HOWEVER, he made a couple of bad decisions while president (his embargo during the Napoleonic Wars is one such as example).

I opposed his positions about urbanization and modernization in cities, though. He was somewhat opposed to the budding Industrial Revolution, factories, etc. He preferred the agriculture industry. But that was because that was his business.

Take out this dark spot on his career and he has a massive amount of excellent political positions as well as a great political career.

He banged some of his slaves, though...there's that.

Here's an amazing and succinct description of his presidency that I like a lot:

"When Jefferson assumed the Presidency, the crisis in France had passed. He slashed Army and Navy expenditures, cut the budget, eliminated the tax on whiskey so unpopular in the West, yet reduced the national debt by a third."

There is also George Washington who refused to play the political parties game and correctly foresaw the corruption it would bring: he was spot on.

George Washington also cared a shitload about individual liberty and took a very hardline stance with Separation of Church and State: something modern conservatives still do not understand.

My personal political belief, that I feel is the most important of all my political beliefs, is preserving individual liberty as much as possible. I take that to the utmost extremes. The only exception, of course, is when someone's individual liberty infringes upon another. For example, you should not have the right to rape anyone you see: that infringes upon the bodily autonomy of another.

George Washington takes my top spot. However, I'm open to better suggestions that show a liberty-loving president that knew the right decisions to make. There are quite a few others in there like Abraham Lincoln (because, while he wanted to free the slaves, he correctly suggested that we offer passage back to their African homelands where they belonged because, at the time for many of the slaves, it had only been a few short decades since their people were sold into slavery and brought to the US). This may seem racist but not sending them back home to their homelands was against their liberty. From that, we still have problems to this day with integrating African descendants into American Culture (but some would argue that they are Americans: I agree with that but everyone knows, including progressives, that black people experience the most struggles out of any other race demographic (whether or not you think that is self-imposed is another conversation)).

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Thanks for the insights. Not to play devil's advocate but I notice everyone listed was in office before any of us were born. I wonder if there is some kind of sanitization effect where reading about someone gives a better impression of that person than being bombarded 24/7 with media spins about that person.

I also agree that political parties have been a problem. It seems that we should have either a higher number of viable parties, or none at all.

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I wonder if there is some kind of sanitization effect where reading about someone gives a better impression of that person than being bombarded 24/7 with media spins about that person.

We have the benefit of modern history where all of their activities, news article, etc. were captured during their terms.

That includes Jefferson's fails with the Napoleonic War but successes with the Federalists and the Louisiana Purchase.

Just like modern times, none of us directly interact with these politicians and rely on news articles that chronicle the events.

What's great about all this is we have evidence that political slant was in news papers in the Adams vs. Jefferson events. We know the press was doing their bullshit even all the way back then, too.

So, no, there's no modern bias or days-past bias - it's all detached for almost every single one of us.

What I can enjoy is the writings of each of them. In the case of Jefferson, he didn't have a speech writer for his political opinions. He was THE writer. Many politicians copy him, now. For good reason. Today, almost all presidents have speech writers.

Abraham Lincoln also wrote one of the most famous presidential speeches: Gettysburg Address.

HOWEVER, I think your point is valid. Some people, it likely my bias included, idolize days past and put older politicians on pedestals. Similar to the Roman Emperors: folks like to parade the "good ones" about as paragons of truth and righteousness (Augustus/Julius).

I also agree that political parties have been a problem. It seems that we should have either a higher number of viable parties, or none at all.

That is likely the political understatement of the century. Even on voat/poal, we "fight" here amongst ourselves because of the stupid tribal politics. I remember pissing off dozens of folks on voat because I criticized Trump for being deep in the swamp he said he'd drain. When in reality, almost all of us agree on almost all policies including the problems that need to be addressed. So why are we fighting? Tribal politics.

Anyway, this is a great conversation.

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Jackson, t roosevelt, ike for his exit speech.