Thanks for info and data. I noticed a couple of things: - The doc does state that one is only considered vaccinated 14 days after the 2nd does, meaning anyone testing positive, hospitalized, or dying in that 14 days is counted as unvaccinated. It would be interesting to see the raw data on how many of the unvaccinated had received one shot or the 2nd within 14 days. -It does not list the cycles the PCR test was run at. At the start of the vaccination campaign, two cycle thresholds were set: one for vaccinated, one for unvaccinated. This also skews the data, and without knowing that for this data, makes this data hard to interpret until it is known. -The rise of infected and covid associated death follows the vaccination rollout, and is on a heavy decline now that the momentum and people lining up for shots is fading. Correlation does not equal causation, but it is an interesting observation for further study, which many have hypothesized about.
I'm not implying you are wrong, but like you accuse so many here of doing, we need to think critically about both sides of the debate and the data/arguments they present.
Considering the unprecedented shenanigan governments and their agencies have been up to with numbers and stats, its important we all show some skepticism and critical though, of them and for ourselves.
- The doc does state that one is only considered vaccinated 14 days after the 2nd does, meaning anyone testing positive, hospitalized, or dying in that 14 days is counted as unvaccinated. It would be interesting to see the raw data on how many of the unvaccinated had received one shot or the 2nd within 14 days.
Hundreds of posts/studies have been made that have this data. We know from the Human Trials that it takes the body about 7-10 days to produce the requisite antibodies and desired immuno-response outcomes. 14 days is a statistics thing: at that far out, it's supposed to be something like 4-5 sigma. If you plot the effectiveness, it looks asymptotic (hitting a maximum efficacy limit) - waiting "longer" doesn't make it more effective and then there is a gradual curve back up at 4+ months where the effects slightly wain.
It does not list the cycles the PCR test was run at.
Really doesn't matter at all for this conversation/topic. There's no additional value to gained and those thresholds are dictated by the PCR test manufacturers. It's apples to oranges and you can't blanket compare them all. Just like before, there are significant diminishing returns after 10 cycles.
https://health-desk.org/articles/what-do-we-know-about-pcr-threshold-cycles
The rise of infected and covid associated death follows the vaccination rollout
It does not. The exact opposite is true. Don't pay attention to the anti-science blogs that cherry pick specific time frames and countries.
It ia multi-factored: not all vaccines are equal. Moderna's is highly effective even 10+ after. The Russian and Chinese vaccines are not as good as the mRNA vaccines. Spacing vaccination between first and second dose also affects efficacy. When Delta hit, relative to vaccination rates, also impacted numbers. What should matter is the actual peer reviewed, published science, that fit predicted data models. And we have that:
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2021.00619
We had vaccine shortages the first 2 months but that reduced over time. We could have saved significantly more lives if vaccination rates kept up for all 6 months starting in Jan. Unfortunately, the antivaxxers have too much of a voice and people are to likely to believe the bullshit. My personal estimates are around 20K-30K people have died, needlessly, because of the antivax disinformation (just the US, alone).
but like you accuse so many here of doing
You can probably understand my "I'm done with the retardedness" from poal attitude because the points you bring up, we have the data. And we've had it for a long time. But that data is not being talked about nearly as much as the antivax bullshit. They think, for some ultra ridiculously retarded reason, that the Jews are responsible for the vaccines to harm people. In reality, we have the actual evidence that the Chinese are sometimes behind the antivax bullshit in the US because they want to divide and literally kill Americans.
Can you imagine? What if everyone on Poal was forced to admit that much of their antivax talking points came from Chinese Disinformation Campaigns that exists specifically to divide and kill more Americans? That's the real conspiracy, we have the evidence, but not body talks about that.
Considering the unprecedented shenanigan governments and their agencies have been up to with numbers and stats, its important we all show some skepticism and critical though, of them and for ourselves.
While I agree, the folks are not doing that, here, when it comes to the vaccines. Some amazing content and research has popped up on this site (I'm a boomerang Poal user after Voat fell, hence the 1 in my name) but when it comes to the vaccines, they lose their damn critical thinking minds and just start shitting all over the places and eating each other's shit. Calling it retarded shit like "DNA editing vaccines!" when that's not even remotely close to what the mRNA vaccines are.
Anyway, thanks for not being an asshole and responding with a well-thought-out comment.
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