Those people are irrelevant, they're obstacles at worse. The reason for example, proud boys chose of all places seattle to show up in? Because thats where the fight was. Thats where they'd get pushback that would gain them traction. Obscurity really is oblivion, and if people don't know about you, you might as well not exist as an organization. Thats fine for organizations that aren't above board, but for public facing orgs, or group recruiting supporters, obscurity is a death sentence. It's why political organizations focus on propaganda and what boils down to marketing. It's why the technocrats in silicon valley want to control the narrative. The new form of democracy is *participatory* democracy, mass parties, ideologically motivated networks of people. In this future the new means of control is not top down propaganda/messages by themselves, nor overt threat, but the power to decide *who participates and gets to participate in the development of public opinion at all*. The ability to control 1. who spreads messages, 2. what messages get spread, 3. who is supressed, is the ability to de facto decide public opinion long term. And the most effective way to do that, in the face of technology, is 1. to have an opponent so the struggle raises the public profile of the message, 2. go where the message will be most opposed (because if people are suffering under intolerable mobs, those mobs effectively act as recruiters for *you*).