I did recognize your reference to potential within the original post, but this word nothing was thrown around so much I feel as if that concept was being made synonymous with the empty set. I also thought you were saying zero and nothing were distinct because zero possessed something nothing did not, but then I thought you were saying that it is nothing, not zero, that constitutes the empty set. It may have just been hasty reading on my part; time was short last night.
I do recall you differentiating between nothing and the empty set, since the empty set has at least as much being as to be able to contain other being, but it also seemed somehow you were equating them.
An empty set only has being insofar as it has the capacity to receive other being. This is indeed precisely what a type of being without any act would be like - pure potentiae, prime matter, being awaiting act.
But this is still distinct from necessary being, which is the opposite of prime matter, but rather is pure act.
I guess what disturbed me about your post was your association of the empty set with mind, and your description of Mind as the necessary being. That sounds a lot like God, but nothing could be further from God than prime matter.
Aristotle believed in the eternity both of Pure Act - the Prime Mover he called it - and of the world itself, particularly prime matter. And he probably believed it for similar reasons to those you've presented; the Prime Mover required existing material to move and give form to.
But the Church rejects the eternity of the world because it goes against the creatio ex nihilo dogma. Only God is eternal, everything else is created. But then again, we must remember that the Church exists to guide the flock, and human beings in our fallen nature are so sinful that, if the Church did not condemn the eternity of the world, people would turn to worshipping idols, thinking them "divine".
This is not to say the Church dogmatized a lie; that's impossible. Rather, the Church, in forming her doctrines, must work with the limitations of human language. The average Joe won't recognize the difference between "the world" (which has actual being, as it exists now and as we know it) being eternal, and "prime matter", pure potentiae, being eternal. If we call prime matter just that potential for God to create, the empty set itself, then perhaps we can get away with that without contradicting the Church. But I'm wary of such claims, because even that suggests God created creatures, in a way, from Himsrlf, which the Church condemns. Then again, as much must necessarily be true, at the right level of consideration.
And as Smith notes, even Genesis refers to God "moving over the waters" at the beginning. What waters? And why water? Is it because water is receptive to any form? Is this passage then referring to prime matter, to an empty set?
I always sense a danger more risky than its worth in discussing these issues.
Genesis 1:2 (biblegateway.com) - this is definitely the verse to consider with respect to your post. Second verse in the Bible. Not only does God move over the waters (before creating the oceans?), but the earth (before creating the earth?) is empty and void. Does this not describe an empty set?
But this is still distinct from necessary being, which is the opposite of prime matter, but rather is pure act.
I think you are correct to criticize me here. I made some confused statements toward the end in this regard.
I guess what disturbed me about your post was your association of the empty set with mind, and your description of Mind as the necessary being. That sounds a lot like God, but nothing could be further from God than prime matter.
Yes, exactly. I should have thought about it more before trying to connect the entire argument to mind. Instead, I'd rather say that the image of trinity is reflected in mind, and what the empty set reflects is the 'bottomness' of mind (the most naked thought we can have), which itself cannot come without at least some act - we bracket nothing {...}. To use a metaphor, the human mind is never flat-footed, it is always standing on 'tip toes', with some rudimentary tension in the muscles.
Somehow, I believe the image of God as triune is reflected in the human mind, and the empty set is just the cognitive reflection of the prime matter.
And as Smith notes, even Genesis refers to God "moving over the waters" at the beginning. What waters? And why water?
Precisely. I was inspired a while ago by this imagery. The ocean is a symbol of deep power and potential.
But the Church rejects the eternity of the world because it goes against the creatio ex nihilo dogma.
Yes, I think again we have arrived at one of these points of intersection where I'm interested in the esoteric understanding of reality, but you are careful to behave like a compass and keep me situated so as to always distinguish between these and the teachings of the Church.
If God is all, there is no logical way to get around the fact that the prime matter must be an aspect of God. I think you are clever to point out that (at least on a first analysis) we can distinguish between the prime matter and what we find in the created world. This is the mystery of the emanation, and where the Christian angelic hierarchy (or the Jewish Tree of Life) enters the picture symbolically. There is always the emphasis on making the distinction between the cruder matter of this world and the spiritual reality of more 'divine stuff'.
Genesis 1:2 - this is definitely the verse to consider with respect to your post. Second verse in the Bible. Not only does God move over the waters (before creating the oceans?), but the earth (before creating the earth?) is empty and void. Does this not describe an empty set?
YES! YES! That's it. Scripture had it. This got me super excited.
(post is archived)