Yeah i concur. I think we're on the same page. I just kinda didn't read into the 'twisting - breaking the arm' as single one off nonsense that is proliferate on all those hammy self defense tutorials but like i said i took it to mean (in the context of his post) an actual fight (to the death) over the arm and knife and hey if you some how manage to break the guys arm in the ensuing melee. Kudos ...