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Put down your guard for a moment. It isn't the case that this Jew is 'out to get you'.

The Problem of Evil is a massive issue within theology, and it represents what is probably the greatest stumbling block for rational people who ultimately reject faith. Understanding evil is perhaps one of the most important things that anyone can learn in spiritual development and in an effort to improve their lives. Jordan Peterson seems to have become popular, at least in part, because of his insistence on addressing evil.

The wisdom contained in this single video is vast. It will require having some background in order for it to "hit", but I hope that it resonates with you and spurs your interest in wisdom you may have rejected on ethnic grounds. There is a great deal here which applies to the early parts of the biblical Genesis.

Skip to about 1:30 in the video to avoid the obnoxiously long intro sequence.

Put down your guard for a moment. It isn't the case that this Jew is 'out to get you'. The Problem of Evil is a massive issue within theology, and it represents what is probably the greatest stumbling block for rational people who ultimately reject faith. Understanding evil is perhaps one of the most important things that anyone can learn in spiritual development and in an effort to improve their lives. Jordan Peterson seems to have become popular, at least in part, because of his insistence on addressing evil. The wisdom contained in this single video is vast. It will require having some background in order for it to "hit", but I hope that it resonates with you and spurs your interest in wisdom you may have rejected on ethnic grounds. There is a great deal here which applies to the early parts of the biblical Genesis. Skip to about 1:30 in the video to avoid the obnoxiously long intro sequence.

(post is archived)

[–] 0 pt (edited )

I would completely agree that what you have described in and through your interpretation of CTMU is very similar to Kabbalah. In fact, it's hardly distinguishable in most respects. It no doubt also strikes you that there is a similarity with several eastern traditions approximating 'great chain of being' cosmologies. Then again, it might not surprise us to find that Kabbalah takes a good deal of concepts from these perennial traditions.

The "bad" God or Devil is the "observable universe" of science. The Devil exists for the sake of the full realization of the Absolute, a reflexive self-identification process involving no object, subject, nor media.

I would personally want to avoid equating the material universe (or anything which is not pure God-self) with Satan. Evil is a tricky thing to grasp. On the one hand, we could identify evil in terms of a vector which begins at the precise moment of emanation, or in a rough manner of speaking, the very first moment of 'not-God'. I believe, in keeping with CTMU, you might describe this as the very first instant of simulation. I have personally theorized the fundamental (Ain Soph) state of God as pure self-referential being. This isn't quite satisfactory for the computational terms of CTMU, nor would I want it to be. But I could make it moreso if instead of saying that God is perfect self-reference, that He is instead an atemporal infinitely recursive function. It's precisely the moment at which God 'refers out' that we might imagine the accident of evil to emerge.

I have preferred in the past to think about the pure state of God as an infinite loop of self-reference for the precise reason that its contrast is so amenable to a description of the creative act. The precise moment at which God ceases self-reference necessarily indicates reference to 'Other'. In the creative imagery of my mind, this just is what something like a Big Bang would be. We could imagine the immaterial, all-encompassing God momentarily losing self-reference, and BOOM, a universe comes into being (or perhaps many, or infinite universes).

The purpose of observable reality is for the Absolute to be realized in the sense of "internal modeling" (of itself)

I agree. I've said in the previous comment, and I'll restate here to echo my paragraph just above, I believe that all of reality is a mind. This universal coming-to-be, in what we term a Big Bang, is not something I think of as an outward emanation of God, or a 'budding off' of a universe from some fountainhead of universes. No, there is no space or time except within that universe. It is something more like a thought, and of course it propagates deeper into itself at faster-than-light speed because light is the speed of information within that thought, or the speed at which the boundaries of the circles in Langan's Venn diagram propagate outward through space, acting as a kind of 'adapter' between the layers of simulation. I have not figured it out yet, but I actually believe gravity propagates at light speed, and it is not a fundamentally different force, but an inversion.

the sense we know as "conscious awareness", as opposed to it being "realized" in the sense of direct embodiment

YES! Hence, symbolic realism, ala my previous, longer comment.

By necessity, self-configuration ultimately entails full self-disclosure and a fully unambiguous self identification (proof) of the totality (Absoluteness) of whatever is self-configured.

I agree, but this is where it gets interesting. I am still staggered by how synchronous this is with what @PS and I have been discussing for many months now.

I believe this outward emanation that we take to be the timewise separation from God into more fully elaborated, yet differentiated, states of physical existence is something like an 'escape'. A thought is able to escape the mind-source only so long as it maintains difference. Just like when we are reading a fictional story, at any point there is 'fully unambiguous' self-identification of ourselves with the story, the story ceases and we are pulled back into ourselves. We must escape ourselves to enter fictional worlds. I take this to be an apt analogy for what our very cosmos is.

The moment that self-identification occurs, the universe (or simulation, if you'd rather) collapses back into the non-existence of the primordial God-state - i.e., back into the perfect, infinite self-referential loop that is God. Therefore, existence is always hanging on a delicate balance, and this is what necessitates evil in existence. For the goodness of Being to be realized in all of these myriad, differentiated ways, the evil is necessary to prevent God from perfect self-realization - to keep us barreling into the 'not God', constantly escaping God's 'view': to me, this is the Genesis story. I consider the apple to be analogous to the evolution of higher intelligence (which makes its coupling to the symbol of agriculture perfect from the historical standpoint). The moment that Adam and Eve realized something more sophisticated and 'naked' about their God nature, they had to escape. They had to be cast from the Garden and into a cruder level of existence because they'd become ashamed of themselves. This also recapitulates the Kabbalistic idea that the more we realize we are God (the more the Right hand accepts, the Left hand rejects), the stronger the force of rejection becomes which pushes us away and increases our sense of distance.

To me, this is also the essence of the story of Job. It's the immense desire of the person seeking God, combined with the commensurate rejecting force of this person into the 'dark night of the soul' that maintains the spiritual voltage that keeps the loop of existence open. Just like a current flowing requires opposite polarized voltages on either end of the path, our existence is contingent on a great desire to return to God combined with the proportional rejection that flings us further into existence - further into the dark night. Eventually God finds its way into all of these new places, but just like an author who writes a fictional place, we might think that the world he is writing expands 'out ahead of him' before has actually been able to explore it.

Evil just is the furthering of the creation. This seems immensely confusing because of the limitations of our language, but this is also how we understand that it's all truly just Good. Being is goodness, and evil is just what we perceive when we perceive the one aspect of the duality that is furthering creation. Hence, the afflictions of Job, or the scorched forest, or the tsunami all become evil things for us because our focal point of experience cannot perceive these from the standpoint of God. We cannot perceive from the standpoint of that which is the giver, but only from the standpoint of that which receives. This is the reason for suffering.

The idea is consummated in the crucified Christ. Take what I've said above about the desire for closeness being met with a pushing away, as necessary for the spiritual voltage that sustains existence.

Now consider the crucified Son of God who exclaims to the father, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

I consider this to be the most important thing spoken by Christ in the entire Bible. At the precise consummation of the Passion, of the piercing of the veil and the victory of goodness over evil, what happens? The Son is forsaken. That's it. It's all right there.

@KingOfWhiteAmerica

[–] 0 pt

I would personally want to avoid equating the material universe (or anything which is not pure God-self) with Satan.

It's not even my original idea, in fact it's what the Bible says. I think a distinction can be made between "observable universe (of science)" and the (unseen) global scale of reality.

The physical universe is the realm of Satan, and the only escape is "death", which is a metaphor for the realization of the Absolute, and even then you have to get to "heaven", which is analogous to "nirvana", also an allegory for the realization of the Absolute.

Death, particularly when combined with resurrection, is a metaphor for the temporary cessation of volition (Karma). I suppose the cold, analytical description "cessation of volition" is virtually meaningless outside of its realization.

I have personally theorized the fundamental (Ain Soph) state of God as pure self-referential being.

The self-reference of God by God is via sentient beings, up to and including the direct realization of the absolute via the suspension of volition.

Realizing the Absolute is just the temporary suspension of volitional activity, but this also implies a meaning for life.

The Absolute state is "just" a pure stasis, and the realization thereof is "just" the suspension of volition or karma. The realization thus requires volitional (fallen) beings such that volition could then be suspended.

The Absolute is "pure stasis", "pure freedom", "boundlessness", or else in physical terms a "primordial, infinite mass". All of these descriptions are equivalent ways of describing an effectively infinite, unbound potential or else God.

An infinite, primordial mass (qua God) is implied by an expanding universe and the "Big Bang" model, while the inverted conspansion model (CTMU) models the (contracting) observable universe "inside" the primordial mass, thereby coherently describing the notion of God's presence in all things as the syntactic distribution of God over all things as per a Venn diagram.

My contention with the CTMU could be a matter of clarification. The "G.O.D." operator sounds like the Devil to me, while just by analytical definition alone, "God" couldn't be other than UBT, which is "pure stasis", or else "God's grace", "heaven", or "nirvana".

The purpose of life is that "God's grace" isn't "fully" realized unless or until "fallen" beings can realize it, most particularly in the very midst of mass suffering and the rampant and systemic non-realization of "God's grace" by society in general.

YES! Hence, symbolic realism, ala my previous, longer comment.

Symbolic realism isn't quite what I meant by a conscious awareness of the Absolute, but it's not unrelated. In the sense of a cessation of volition (karma), the Absolute (God's grace, Nirvana) is manifest by default in the mind of the perceiving subject.

The realization of the Absolute IS equivalent to a conscious, perceiving human being ceasing and desisting with volitional activity (karma), at least temporarily. Given that reality = mind, and that Absolute reality is an eternally pure stasis, the non volitional mind defaults by necessity to its most fundamental, Absolute state.

The Absolute can potentially be realized by anyone, yet it's not something anyone can do, since the "cessation of volition" is by definition not a goal which can be volitionally attained.

Beyond what I've said is the realization that there's simply no identifiable "cause" (of reality) besides volition itself, meaning volition is the only form of causality. Volition is cause because "God's grace" must be concealed to be fully realized, while volition (cause) is the only thing which conceals an ever present, eternally pure stasis from its own self-perceiving mind. The Absolute by definition is an eternally pure stasis which can't be caused, yet which must be "fully" realized in the direct, non-volitional sense.

The relative, physical universe is associated with causality up to a point, but never at the global scale.

Because we must use "cause & effect" to think and perceive, we're naturally wired to presume a cause for reality, ie "God", yet the constraints of the physical world aren't fully compatible with God qua "pure freedom".

Evil just is the furthering of the creation.

I agree, yet I'm suggesting there's ultimately no such thing as "creation", certainly not of the Absolute. Creation entails causality and causality is volition, which is our psychological baggage, not God's. If God is fully realized in the suspension of volition, God isn't volitional and has no reason to "create" what's already Absolute and eternal.

On the other hand, God isn't "forbidden" to create, just not the Absolute God, so we get the Devil instead.

The "creation" aspect of reality is the Devil, while volition is the very thing concealing God's eternal grace from the awareness. The Devil can be regarded as "furthering creation" in the sense that without volition there's no creation, yet nothing was actually "created" which wasn't eternally self-realized already.

I suppose I need to actually watch rest of the video now to comment further.