Are you asking why I don't think people burn in hell for cheating on their husbands? There is zero evidence of that.
Insofar far as Christianity purports to be a fully true religion, and there is evidence for the truth of Christianity, then there is evidence for what Christianity teaches being true, and that includes the reality of hell.
Look into the First Vision of Fatima, private revelation validated by the Miracle of the Sun. This is also evidence.
Note that I'm not speaking of proof - something that typically only applies to syllogistic argument and geometry anyway - I'm talking about evidence. Evidence is merely a fact that does suggest the truth of a claim or theory. To suggest there is no evidence of hell is patently absurd.
Christianity claims to be all true + Some of Christianity is true => Therefore all of Christianity is true!
Naw man.
Im not trying to be insulting. But I dont see why I should believe any visions at fatima or anywhere else any more than I should believe the latest Q drop. Lot’s of people have visions. Christians tend to see the Virgin. Other people see space aliens or Lord Shiva. It’s what ever occupies your head.
Damn, she's logic-ing us, Peace! That means we'll actually have to go to work. Smart people are awful.
Helena, I'm working on a response to your comment from above. I need to work through some ideas to clear up those paragraphs you said were confusing. Will post tonight or tomorrow.
(Also, Poal was being screwy about posting this comment. It showed it twice, so I deleted one of them. Then they were both gone. So you might have gotten pinged twice for a similar comment.)
Let me clarify. I think there are several non sequiturs in a couple of your paragraphs
...if survival is all that counts, then the beliefs that promote survival ought to be truer.
Well we are dealing with a lot of legacy architecture from when we were monkeys or amphibians or earthworms, so there may be some behaviors that conferred survival in our predecessors. Humans werent built from scratch. But you are somewhat correct although I would not say truer, but more important.
Fire is hot. Ice is cold. If I try to murder my rival, he will try to murder me! Men have penises, and girls have vaginas.
What? I dont see how this follows. Fire is not hot in an absolute sense. It is much colder than the sun. It is hot relative to us. Ice is up to 273 degrees above absolute zero. Lots of stuff colder than an ice cube. But if I grant you all this, I still dont know the point you are making.
We tend to believe things which are true. We think that these things would be true in any possible world like our own, that is, that fire would burn us (or any sufficiently hot thing would burn us).
Fire will burn us != Fire is hot
It becomes senseless to call this a relative truth,
I agree it is a highly inefficient way to deal with fire if you are a human, nevertheless “fire is hot” is not an absolute truth
If the fact that fire burns us isn't true, then you've at least established one truth - that relativism is true.
Wut
Yet if relativism is true, you've also established that belief in it would hurt survival - therefore a true belief would hurt us. This is a contradiction. It makes no sense
Wut
Consider these statements
mugs are useful
fucking little kids is bad
These are both statements many people would agree are true
Is the truth value the same for these statements? I could drink my coffee out of a paper cup or even a shoe and no one is going to lynch me.
How do I process the idea of mugs being useful. What algorithms are running in my brain.
What about the second statement. Is the same circuitry being used when I think about the badness of fucking kids?
If you asked people which of those statements was more true, I bet they would say the second. Its not really more true. But its more important to most people.
Her logic was describing a strawman, not what I argued. But I'm sure that wasn't her intention, and you're right, this should be addressed.
I was not saying that evidence of certain Christian claims proves the religion. That would be like using evidence of the subversive effects of homosexuality as proof that Jesus is Lord, which is ridiculous.
Rather, I am saying that there is evidence that the Christian faith itself is true, and that this evidence itself serves as evidence for Christian doctrines such as hell.
I was just saying that a lack of direct evidence for something specific like hell would not constitute a lack of evidence entirely. Prove the cause, and the effect is proven also (given that the cause is what it is).
I was suggesting that there is in fact evidence for the cause (Christianity itself). Namely, public miraculous validation of a Divinity claim, the witness of the Church founders, and the historicity of both.
As I said, validated by the Miracle of the Sun.
(post is archived)