>he thinks people who take herbal supplements are equal to people who take (((pre workout))) supplements No. The people who take herbal supplements take pure, organic, sourced herbs that taste like garbage but aren't full of caffeine. Also the LD50 of caffeine is ~ 300 mg / KG. Do you have any idea how insane that is? 8oz redbull has 68mg caffeine. For an 82kg male (~180lbs) he would have to drink ~362 8-ounce redbulls, or 2,896 ounces of redbull in a few hours to have a 50% chance of dying. So kindly fuck off with your (((science))). Now keep in mind these individuals are athletes, they aren't your average ham. Their heart and body can easily take significantly more and their metabolism will metabolize and excrete far more caffeine over time. So the LD50 for them would be much higher.