Honestly imo, 17 or 18 is universally too young unless we are talking about savages. We are a sophisticated civilization with a complicated cultural program that we must indoctrinate our children with before they are fully fledged adults— that means long childhoods for men and women. If you dont want men to marry at 17 bcause they are not prepared to take on a family then you have to ask yourself why you want women to marry at that age. They are not prepared. They may be prepared to be a peasant farmer’s wife but this aint 1850. Even 5 years is a massive psychological advantage that age for a 20s husband with a teens wife. Why are the men on this site so bent in achieving this disparity? It is not to achieve a higher birth rate because that is possible if you put off child bearing until the 20s. It is not to “keep her off the cock carousel” since that is simply a matter of restricting the access of males to young women— its been done before it, can be done again. People do not understand relationships at all at 17. Not at all. 22 or 23 is barely better but one must make concessions to further the race. I feel it is fair to allow people to choose a mate at that age but not before. Goats see the current system as a corrupt matriarchy which it essentially is. They want a large power disparity to be established which favors them because they see it as a remedy for the current situation, but it will just lead to a corrupt patriarchy. The larger the age disparity, the more women will in fact be brood mares and chattel. A 15 year old bride is a child to a 30 year old man. You are saying it wont be that bad if it is a 17 year old with a 25 year old. Im saying it is incrementalism. Ultimately this disparity leads to an increasingly polygamous situation and one day you wake up and you are a 59 year old muzzie with 4 child brides. Monogamy which is heavily favored in both european and east asian cultures results in high levels of equality between men and women and largely peaceful stable societies. That is most likely to happen with high age parity among married couples. @metanoid