@Stupidbird is probably charging on his station atm, but I’m sure he’ll be glad to help soon.
@Stupidbird is probably charging on his station atm, but I’m sure he’ll be glad to help soon.
Well...a perfect preamp takes the the input and makes it bigger without modifying it in any other way - that's the basic definition of an amp, so if you're modifying the sound in some way that's your preference. Filtering of any sort is per the listener - if it sounds good to you, use it.
And a pre-amp, what are you driving that needs a low-impedance output? A preamp is supposed to feed the signal into your main amp, so while it can convert hi to lower (think a phono amp) it's still "hi impedance" for the most part - a tube amp reaches low impedance at the final output drive (your speaker) and does so with a transformer. That's really the only way you're going to get low impedance out because a tube by nature is hi impedance. I'm sure there are some circuits out there that can bridge it down, but you're trying to not use the tube like it's designed at that point. A transistor is going to be your choice if you want to direct drive a low impedance system.
(What are you considering low impedance here? 100 ohms?)
I'm not familiar with class AD amplifiers, that seems to violate itself because they're two different animals...Class A is all the power all the time while class D is no power until needed. What sources are you looking at for this one?
Well...a perfect preamp takes the the input and makes it bigger without modifying it in any other way - that's the basic definition of an amp, so if you're modifying the sound in some way that's your preference. Filtering of any sort is per the listener - if it sounds good to you, use it.
And a pre-amp, what are you driving that needs a low-impedance output? A preamp is supposed to feed the signal into your main amp, so while it can convert hi to lower (think a phono amp) it's still "hi impedance" for the most part - a tube amp reaches low impedance at the final output drive (your speaker) and does so with a transformer. That's really the only way you're going to get low impedance out because a tube by nature is hi impedance. I'm sure there are some circuits out there that can bridge it down, but you're trying to not use the tube like it's designed at that point. A transistor is going to be your choice if you want to direct drive a low impedance system.
(What are you considering low impedance here? 100 ohms?)
I'm not familiar with class AD amplifiers, that seems to violate itself because they're two different animals...Class A is all the power all the time while class D is no power until needed. What sources are you looking at for this one?
I'm curious to the application myself, RF is vastly different than a guitar amp vs car sub amp. Low impedence in car is .5 ohm, low impedance for guitar or home audio is 4 ohm.
Tubes indicate a desired coloring the sound for guitar and bass, while the rest seem car audio.
I'm curious to the application myself, RF is vastly different than a guitar amp vs car sub amp. Low impedence in car is .5 ohm, low impedance for guitar or home audio is 4 ohm.
Tubes indicate a desired coloring the sound for guitar and bass, while the rest seem car audio.
Tubes add noise when improperly run. If you bias it correctly, it outputs exactly what goes in, except bigger.
If you starve them or overdrive them, they start to add "color" as it's called. Great when you want a fuzz pedal, terrible when you want Bach to sound like Bach.
Tubes add noise when improperly run. If you bias it correctly, it outputs exactly what goes in, except bigger.
If you starve them or overdrive them, they start to add "color" as it's called. Great when you want a fuzz pedal, terrible when you want Bach to sound like Bach.
exactly why I'm asking for help lol. I don't want to add color only to use them to keep signal HiFi as its converted and let me increase voltage on the outputs by 3.5v maximum.
exactly why I'm asking for help lol. I don't want to add color only to use them to keep signal HiFi as its converted and let me increase voltage on the outputs by 3.5v maximum.
100% agree, that's why knowing the intended application is critical.
100% agree, that's why knowing the intended application is critical.
i dont run low impedance speakers like .5, 1 ohm speakers I like 4/8 ohm DVC subs and svc 4/8 ohm for other speakers. higher impedance produces much better sounding and responsive drivers. those that use low impedance for subs is for daisy chaining 12 18"s in a TAHOE or some other dumb shit you can think of. I like studio quality but at much stronger levels. I don't want it concert loud anymore but a nice small gig or dive venue is respectable. I'm going full IB with my Subs and Mid-Bass woofers, rear subwoofer will be set in rear right corner of truck cone firing through cabin, along with all equipment so I still have 60% of rear cabin. front sub bass will be a 8' mounted cone through floor on passenger side. will be 1 6.5" mid-bass woofer on each side in floor kicks with cone through floor, tweeters and 4" Mid-range will be mounted in dash with midrange 30% on axis and tweeter same.
i dont run low impedance speakers like .5, 1 ohm speakers I like 4/8 ohm DVC subs and svc 4/8 ohm for other speakers. higher impedance produces much better sounding and responsive drivers. those that use low impedance for subs is for daisy chaining 12 18"s in a TAHOE or some other dumb shit you can think of. I like studio quality but at much stronger levels. I don't want it concert loud anymore but a nice small gig or dive venue is respectable. I'm going full IB with my Subs and Mid-Bass woofers, rear subwoofer will be set in rear right corner of truck cone firing through cabin, along with all equipment so I still have 60% of rear cabin. front sub bass will be a 8' mounted cone through floor on passenger side. will be 1 6.5" mid-bass woofer on each side in floor kicks with cone through floor, tweeters and 4" Mid-range will be mounted in dash with midrange 30% on axis and tweeter same.
this is for a car audio setup. I want to build a Line-Out that uses tube technology to convert the speaker line impedance to RCA's while also getting finer voltage adjustment and can increase voltage from factory 4v to a crisp 7.5v without distorting as my last 5 LOC's would distort the signal if I increased the voltage above 4.5 volts. if I increase RCA voltage my amps will best realize rated power and produce a cleaner signal if RCA voltage is maximum amp can input which mine are 6v which gives a cleaner signal since you don't need much gain at all to realize power.
this is for a car audio setup.
I want to build a Line-Out that uses tube technology to convert the speaker line impedance to RCA's while also getting finer voltage adjustment and can increase voltage from factory 4v to a crisp 7.5v without distorting as my last 5 LOC's would distort the signal if I increased the voltage above 4.5 volts.
if I increase RCA voltage my amps will best realize rated power and produce a cleaner signal if RCA voltage is maximum amp can input which mine are 6v which gives a cleaner signal since you don't need much gain at all to realize power.
this is going be a long post explaining myself
I am traveling down a path of learning and thought i want to do away with the lineout converter in my vehicle. I could easily order a high end LOC but why not look into creating my own.
What got me going was learning crossover network design and improving the audio reproduction in my vehicle. Currently I'm slowly redesigning the front and rear sound staging in my truck (10' F150 Platinum) and going for SQL. SQL is extreme high fidelity with moderate volume levels. I have always had a fair stereo in my vehicles because factory systems suck even in high end cars. I have never owned or seen anyone with DSP's or crossover networks I always relied on sound treatments and amplifier filters. Most folk I know use the filters on the amp or built there own crossovers.
The experience of learning and designing crossover networks and amplifiers physically is what I'm after. I really enjoy building stuff with my youngest and we like challenges and do stuff together all the time.
so regarding the tube preamp question, my goal is to produce a better "Line-Out Converter". knowing the quality of tonality tubes can provide, I want to make my own "LOC" using a tube configuration.
My truck's factory radio produces 4v on front and rear channels & 2v on subwoofer channel. I deleted the subwoofer channel, the only use for the rear lines are for rear fill as Sony implemented a factory 2nd order Butter-Worth low pass filter set at 50Hz.
none of my amps have high level input ability so I must use a multi-channel LOC as my input.
I will need 9 channels in total for my sound stage by completion.
once design is functional on the program I can produce the product. I would only use the front speaker lines as it is full range with no filtering other than non-adjustable stuff in the factory Sony DSP. I like my factory radio so don't want to change it out until I have to even then i'll play with this idea for quite some time.
all the tube LOC needs to accomplish is converting my front speaker lines signal to 9 RCA output channels. my thought is the Tube can help maintain a clean High Fidelity signal, and increase the RCA voltage. I would like to be able to improve max voltage output from 4v to 7.5v without distortion in the signal. this lets me deliver maximum input voltage requiring less gain, letting my amplifier's produce rated power output with the least amount of gain adjustment which lets me produce a cleaner signal to my loudspeakers.
As far as amplifier is concerned, like many I have always wondered about combining Class A with Class D or higher to produce a amplifier that uses the best of both worlds. Class A produces the best possible sound quality but with no Eff, while Class D and up run very Eff. Korean Class D amp's can be up to 95% Eff which is just amazing.
years of searching brings up no designs in use or schematics shared, only comments about designing and others destroying the designing and production of a amplifier by dropping comment after comment of the complexity needed to build one and all the potential short-coming's one would run into.
with that I think the best option for some step of success would be to start with LOC that uses a Class A Tube configuration to give adjustable voltage control and the ability to increase voltage output of the high level from 4v to 7.5v with no distortion to the RCA outputs. I think as a whole this idea is far more capable than reinventing the amplifier wheel with a amplifier that wont exist as advances in technology move far to fast.
I don't join to many forums but figured your always doing stuff with tubes you might be a great starting point for figuring if the theory is possible and if so can you help with circuit designing? If I need to join somewhere to acquire help designing the circuitry can you point me in the right location. I pondered using an AI circuit design program but using AI makes me nervous to reply on.
I do have proto on my android and programs like LTSpice, EasyEDA, KiCAD, XSIM, PCB Editor, QUCS and a few other programs for laying out the circuit.
i can find tons of schematics for various things i want to learn but nobody has done a LOC tube coupled together or if they have noones talking about it or posting schematics or designs or circuits lol.
I can design audio high/low pass filters of various types like bessel,butterworth,chebychev,sallen-key,QB3,SBB4,B4, audio zobel circuits, pi filters. so the basics I am ok with. current reading and studying about Parametric EQ's and how to implement open source software for configuring the EQ
sorry the for long post and the circus of theory and questions I asked but any help from you is greatly appreciated
this is going be a long post explaining myself
I am traveling down a path of learning and thought i want to do away with the lineout converter in my vehicle.
I could easily order a high end LOC but why not look into creating my own.
What got me going was learning crossover network design and improving the audio reproduction in my vehicle.
Currently I'm slowly redesigning the front and rear sound staging in my truck (10' F150 Platinum) and going for SQL.
SQL is extreme high fidelity with moderate volume levels.
I have always had a fair stereo in my vehicles because factory systems suck even in high end cars.
I have never owned or seen anyone with DSP's or crossover networks I always relied on sound treatments and amplifier filters.
Most folk I know use the filters on the amp or built there own crossovers.
The experience of learning and designing crossover networks and amplifiers physically is what I'm after.
I really enjoy building stuff with my youngest and we like challenges and do stuff together all the time.
so regarding the tube preamp question, my goal is to produce a better "Line-Out Converter". knowing the quality of tonality tubes can provide,
I want to make my own "LOC" using a tube configuration.
My truck's factory radio produces 4v on front and rear channels & 2v on subwoofer channel.
I deleted the subwoofer channel, the only use for the rear lines are for rear fill as Sony implemented a factory 2nd order Butter-Worth low pass filter set at 50Hz.
none of my amps have high level input ability so I must use a multi-channel LOC as my input.
I will need 9 channels in total for my sound stage by completion.
once design is functional on the program I can produce the product. I would only use the front speaker lines as it is full range with no filtering other than non-adjustable stuff in the factory Sony DSP. I like my factory radio so don't want to change it out until I have to even then i'll play with this idea for quite some time.
all the tube LOC needs to accomplish is converting my front speaker lines signal to 9 RCA output channels. my thought is the Tube can help maintain a clean High Fidelity signal, and increase the RCA voltage.
I would like to be able to improve max voltage output from 4v to 7.5v without distortion in the signal. this lets me deliver maximum input voltage requiring less gain, letting my amplifier's produce rated power output with the least amount of gain adjustment which lets me produce a cleaner signal to my loudspeakers.
As far as amplifier is concerned, like many I have always wondered about combining Class A with Class D or higher to produce a amplifier that uses the best of both worlds. Class A produces the best possible sound quality but with no Eff, while Class D and up run very Eff.
Korean Class D amp's can be up to 95% Eff which is just amazing.
years of searching brings up no designs in use or schematics shared, only comments about designing and others destroying the designing and production of a amplifier by dropping comment after comment of the complexity needed to build one and all the potential short-coming's one would run into.
with that I think the best option for some step of success would be to start with LOC that uses a Class A Tube configuration to give adjustable voltage control and the ability to increase voltage output of the high level from 4v to 7.5v with no distortion to the RCA outputs. I think as a whole this idea is far more capable than reinventing the amplifier wheel with a amplifier that wont exist as advances in technology move far to fast.
I don't join to many forums but figured your always doing stuff with tubes you might be a great starting point for figuring if the theory is possible and if so can you help with circuit designing?
If I need to join somewhere to acquire help designing the circuitry can you point me in the right location. I pondered using an AI circuit design program but using AI makes me nervous to reply on.
I do have proto on my android and programs like LTSpice, EasyEDA, KiCAD, XSIM, PCB Editor, QUCS and a few other programs for laying out the circuit.
i can find tons of schematics for various things i want to learn but nobody has done a LOC tube coupled together or if they have noones talking about it or posting schematics or designs or circuits lol.
I can design audio high/low pass filters of various types like bessel,butterworth,chebychev,sallen-key,QB3,SBB4,B4, audio zobel circuits, pi filters. so the basics I am ok with. current reading and studying about Parametric EQ's and how to implement open source software for configuring the EQ
sorry the for long post and the circus of theory and questions I asked but any help from you is greatly appreciated
Ok, fair enough - let's take one question at a time.
If I understand correctly, you want to take two speaker level outputs and convert that to nine line-level signals to feed that into other amps?
Ok, fair enough - let's take one question at a time.
If I understand correctly, you want to take two speaker level outputs and convert that to nine line-level signals to feed that into other amps?
yes my left and right front speaker lines will turn into multiple RCA outputs
yes my left and right front speaker lines will turn into multiple RCA outputs