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I'm finding/looking for my faith. I'm looking for Christ, but have not found him, at least not in the sense of the divine spark to make me believe. That being said, please share with me your thoughts on my question, without judging me for not yet finding grace.

As I look more into Christianity, to my understanding, God is outside of time and space. He knows all that has been and will be. He knows what we will choose and why we chose it.

I don't think that takes away from our free will, it only means that He already knows what we have chosen before we chose it.

How does that effect prayer? Does it diminish praying for a specific outcome, or complement it?

I feel conflicted on praying for something specific. Is my I asking for intervention asking for something that was, is, and already will be? Am I really asking at that point, is it just a gesture?

I'm finding/looking for my faith. I'm looking for Christ, but have not found him, at least not in the sense of the divine spark to make me believe. That being said, please share with me your thoughts on my question, without judging me for not yet finding grace. As I look more into Christianity, to my understanding, God is outside of time and space. He knows all that has been and will be. He knows what we will choose and why we chose it. I don't think that takes away from our free will, it only means that He already knows what we have chosen before we chose it. How does that effect prayer? Does it diminish praying for a specific outcome, or complement it? I feel conflicted on praying for something specific. Is my I asking for intervention asking for something that was, is, and already will be? Am I really asking at that point, is it just a gesture?

(post is archived)

[–] • 2 pts

Just remember, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done."

I pray for things with the intent that my ask aligns with God's will. If my want or need doesn't align I pray for the strength to endure and patience to see things through.

I think I am in the same understanding as you that an omniscient and omnipotent Creator already knows even though you have the free will to choose. Your choosing still leads to the fulfillment of His will. It's a lot to think about a being being outside of space and time. Time wouldnt flow linearly for such a being like that. I can't comprehend it but I've seen my own evidence for belief.

[–] • 1 pt

If free will was not a thing and everything is set in stone forever, how did God not predict that Lucifer would betray Him?

He answers all prayers, just sometimes not in the way you'd expect, because He always delivers you what you NEED most, not what you WANT. All gestures towards God are welcome, because He wants all men to come to His house and worship Him, otherwise He wouldnt even have made His Son incarnate in our world!

Outcomes are only known to God, but He knows of your doubts and fears. Hesitation and doubt are the proof nothing is completely predicted all the time, so in a sense, God knows all outcomes, and knows what you will do all the times, but at the same time He allows you to have your own free will and choose your own way. He knows all outcomes of your choices. You are free to choose, He will know the results, and may or may not help you the way you want. One thing is certain: God always will give His mercy to those willing to submit to His word, and the more pious you are, the more He will give you want you NEED. Never throw away His gifts, as small as they are, because one of them can either change you life forever, or be forgotten forever.

[–] • 0 pt

Expanding on what you said about what you NEED Vs what you WANT. I am always afraid of how I go about praying. I'm always worried that praying, for example, strength, would grant me some kind of hard times that gives me the chance to gain strength. As apposed to inspiration or grace of strength. It's like inadvertently asking for hard times, like a monkey paw that benefits me in the end. Makes me feel like any prayer I could have has to be considered greatly. I feel like I prayer shouldn't be thrown out without consideration.

Maybe that is just hubris. I don't know.

[–] • 1 pt

Again, God puts your wishes on perspective for thr correct approach on what you need. He will not give you harder times just to give you strength, but maybe others need it more than you do... He will never give you a cross heavier than one you cannot bear. Prayers never will be useless, because if they were, Jesus wouldnt teach us "Our Father".

It seems you are doubtful on what to ask Him being afraid to not realise He may give you something that you do not want. Its always certain He will give you many gifts for every thing He gives you that you did not want.

As a personal example: today my son stayed submerged in a pool for a few seconds before his mother pulled him out from his hair. He jumped without a vest on and couldnt surface. He didnt drown nor was at risk, but he obviously got shook that he was unable to breathe and tried yelling underwater, ingesting water in the proccess. His lungs were clean, though.

Would you consider that a bad thing, or a blessing in disguise? It was an accident, but a relatively harmless one. The kid is still willing to swim and took it as merely an accident. He will be more careful now, obviously. Your perspective changes as you trust in His judgement. My belief is He sent this to us to warn our vigilance cannot lack. And lacking it was, at least for a few seconds... its all it takes.

I will pray for you, brother, your faith may be shook, but your heart is in the right place. Read on the saints who lost it all and yet never abandoned God. One I really love sharing is the story of Saint Hermenegild. He had it all as a prince, yet abandoned his heretic faith, yet lost everything to defend God. This is how you should be; an unmovable rock, impassable on your trust in His judgement. For His is a gentle hand.

[–] • 1 pt

Thank you, I will think about what you have shared with me.

[–] • 0 pt

Thank you. I thought God did know Lucifer would betray him, and chose to allow it?

[–] • 1 pt

He never knew it would lead to such chaos, or yet He wouldnt need to banish him nor give Saint Michael his sword. If He knew his most trusted angel would betray Him, Hed never make him.

He gave free will to Lucifer so he would choose He allowed it only to prove that even in the worst of wars, there is still a greater good, on a long enough timeline, that will be taken from it that weights heavier than the evils. Free will exists, and God knows of all outcomes from all choices made. He does not know your own choices in the same way we believe we can predict things, its more of a gutural instinct of knowing what will happen by seeing it happen zillions of times; He knows what are the consequences of all actions and choices, to a T, in an exact way, but knowing what we think is more like an instinctive way than exact. God will read all your intents, desires, wishes, and thoughts, but not in the same way you know how to think these things; after all, we are not God and cannot think like He does; and He does it for the entire universe, at the same time...

[–] • 1 pt

No sense in trying to understand God. God is not for us to understand. Praying feels good and praying is a communal effort in some cases, also prayer lingers in places. I generally don't pray for myself because that's lame in my opinion, but ask for grace's for people and or situations. I stay away from Men in capes and men in dresses and them displaying talisman's of warlockery. I get an amused by mentally ill women who cover themselves with talismans and use incantations and believe in 15 different gods and deities. God in the universal context of God I believe you're correct doesn't much even notice the individual more than likely because we are all part of God's manifestation thus we are part of God. I think the best you can do is be a good person and try not to hurt people. Nobody's perfect and no one expects you to be perfect but try to be good.

[–] • 1 pt

Thank you. I suppose you nailed in some way what I was conveying, in that I am unsure in the divine intervention of the individual and the futility of asking for such. I will continue to contemplate on the subject and work on just being a better person.

[–] • 1 pt

There is both free will and predestination. It isn’t an “either/or.”

God foresaw that Adam and Eve would fall. He did not, however, “force” them to sin. Ditto Lucifer. He also does take an active role, intervening and guiding events; this is how prophecy works.

The key to this is understanding God’s “permissive” will, whereby he permits disobedience as a means of showcasing His greater glory. For example, God’s permissive will allowed Joseph’s brothers to sell him into slavery. Joseph himself even told them once they reconciled, “ As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to keep many people alive.” (Gen 50:20)

What we acquire from God, specifically Christ, is not some sensation or feeling. It is invisible and intangible on its own. The Holy Spirit performs work within us and on our behalf as we intake biblical doctrine and put it into practice. The evidence isn’t a “spark,” but a life transformed the way muscles grow through daily diet and exercise.

The method is easy to learn, difficult to master, and firstly requires a saving knowledge of Christ: Acknowledge His deity - He created the universe (John 1:3) His incarnation - He became a man (John 1:14) His Consecration - He lived a sinless life (Heb 4:15) His Crucifixion - He was hanged on a tree and accursed (Deut 21:23) His substitution - by the curse of the cross He became sin on our behalf (2 Cor 5:21) His resurrection - He rose again and walked among us for a time (I Thess 4:14) His ascension - He returned to Heaven (Acts 1:9) His session - He resides in the Court of Heaven, at the right hand of the Father (Rom 8:34)

And once you acknowledge this, salvation is yours forever. What follows rests on the understanding that the process of growth in the Christian Life requires frequent seeking of forgiveness through regular prayerful confession to God (I John 1:9) which allows for the filling of the Holy Spirit, attendance and learning at a local church (Heb 10:25) under a Bible teaching pastor, followed by intake of doctrine and putting it into practice. This is the only way.

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt (edited )

The topic of divine intervention leads to niggers being shot in the face...

So, continue.

In all seriousness, predestination is what led me to the conclusion there can be no god, or at least one worthy of worship. If he's omnipotent and omnicient, then he is all-knowing and all-being; everywhere and everywhen. That damns most of the population by default, long before conception (the beginning of time), and renders every action meaningless.

Worse- it means that he himself established the damned with the creation of Lucifer, who he knew would rebel, knew would successfully corrupt Eve, and he even planted the tree in which he knew would be used. That's pure evil on a cosmic scale.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

When I was a staunch atheist a long time ago, I agreed with your thoughts on it whole heart, but the more I explore into It I no longer agree. Would it be better to be made and forced to worship the way your heart is forced to pump? It seems to me that it is better to be given the option through free will. From the perspective you share, it would have been better to be created as a serving angle before all concepts of freewill, death, suffering, love ever existed.

It's like if you were the only human and you create a robot that served without question, essentially a rumba. The rumba may praise you, it may do everything it is programmed to do, but only because it was programmed too. If you were only surrounded by things you created to do as you programmed, I would think that would be lonely. If you then built a robot that had the choice, and it judged you worthy of praise and caring, that would be love. That seems to me to be the essential defining difference between servitude and love. Looking at humanisticly, you would likely love those robots, you would care for them above all other robots you created, as they have a choice and still chose to care for you. I would argue if you created a robot to serve, gave it the choice to serve, and chose not to, you might scrap it; it doesn't serve your interest to let it continue to be if it actively be against you. Would it be a sort of love for what you created to allow it to continue on, even if it convinced other robots to abandon you?

In that idea, you are a god to these robots. But you are human, and humans desire love and companionship. In Christianity, god created humans in his image, and when they say that they don't mean in looks alone, they mean in spirit. They say that he created us to create love above all. And as a god, would you not want to be loved above all else? Love, in all it's greatness, only exist because we have the choice to love. Lucifer is the first rumba to denounce it's creator, but despite that, it's creator allowed it to continue existing. It allowed it, and all other of it's creation to exists and have it's own choices to make.

A being that exists outside of time and space doesn't, in my opinion, make them evil for allowing their creations to exist knowing their outcome. You ever see the movie Interstellar? The intervention by the 4/5th dimensional beings, allowing the protagonist to travel through time to advise his daughter. What happened always was, and always is, the protagonist always chose to signal his daughter, always saved the race, and always came out the other side. But did the 4/5th dimensional beings always chose to help? I think so, but when did that choice happen? When is inconsequential to those beings. Choices made by something existing outside of time and space is beyond the full comprehension of us.

Hell and damnation as a punishment for not choosing to love is a whole other beast, and I am not sure how I think or feel on the subject. But I do know there are sects that believe there is no hell, only salvation or non existence at the end.

[–] [deleted] • 1 pt

I appreciate your takesbon it; they're similar to my father's when we used to debate the topic, aside from the last part.

Unlike your average atheist, I do respect Christianity and see the positive values that it can instill in a society. I firmly believe that the average normie cannot instinctively discern right from wrong, or establish their own code of ethics without some framework. Christianity did a decent enough job of it- far better than the materialistic/"scientific" idolatry we see today. I'd fight with traditional Christians and day.

I also do not make childish, snide remarks about the existence of gods to people, or try to pick fights about it like a lot of arrogant asses like to do.