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I'm on the fence and am trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. I just got the Smith and Wesson M&P 57 (no safety, of course) and its out performing my S&M MP 9c on penetration and accuracy...but the ammo is super expensive.....plus its not a common round. I'm wondering if I should stick with the 9mm for those two reasons? side note: the green tip 57x28's penetrate class 2 body armor and they will put a serious hurting on class 3.

I'm on the fence and am trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. I just got the Smith and Wesson M&P 57 (no safety, of course) and its out performing my S&M MP 9c on penetration and accuracy...but the ammo is super expensive.....plus its not a common round. I'm wondering if I should stick with the 9mm for those two reasons? side note: the green tip 57x28's penetrate class 2 body armor and they will put a serious hurting on class 3.

(post is archived)

[–] 1 pt (edited )

There are no "magic bullets". They wound by cutting, crushing and tearing tissue. They make holes. That's all. Consider the nature of your "90%" threat, and tool up accordingly.

"trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. "

Then think in terms of availability. 9mm is widely availabe, and relatively inexpensive (especially if you buy in bulk) meaning you can practice more. A pistol with ammo is a weapon. A pistol without ammo is a paperweight.

Shot placement is the primary key to stopping the fight quickly, and I have found face shooting to be most efficacious in this regard.

Lethality-wise, all pistol calibers, in general, are right up there with ninja throwing stars and nunchuks. 90% of the people shot with pistols survive. Many are treated and walk out of the hospital that day.

Nobody goes to a gunfight, on purpose, with only a pistol. A pistol is what you use to either break contact and/or fight your way to a long gun.

Pistols are like a reserve parachute. It's an emergency piece of equipment that you maintain and wear, and are prepared to deploy in order to save your life in extremis. But you wear it and hope that you will never have to use it. And like a reserve parachute, statistically, nobody really needs a pistol. Until suddenly they do. And when you do, you will find that you need one very badly.

(I spent over 40 years doing and teaching this sort of thing for a living on "two-way ranges" on 5 continents, and I'm still here. So listen or not, it's worth what you paid for it. )

[–] 1 pt

I appreciate the feedback..thank you.

[–] 0 pt

I returned the 5.7 x 28 S&M and got a Springfield Arms M1A Socom 16 CQB. I sold the ammo at a loss, but oh well...the armory wouldn't take it back. I will stick with my 9mm pistols.

[–] 1 pt

Good for you. Put a decent two-point sling, red-dot sight, and flashlight on it. Get at least 10 good quality, reliable, magazines. The quickest way to fuck up any magazine fed weapon is to have fucked up magazines.

Next, I would advise that you invest in a good, professionally run carbine course. You would be astonished by what spending a day or two on a range training with someone who does it for a living can do for your proficiency level. It will be worth it. (Tip: have you shit zeroed BEFORE you get there and be ready to train from the git-go. Nobody likes the guy who shows up with all of his brand new gear and having to wait while he unfucks himself.)

Spend the rest on ammo and practice, practice, practice. And by that I don't mean just go out and throw rounds down-range. Having a training plan for the range, just like for the gym. Make every round count toward achieving a training goal, like each rep at the gym.

See what works and see what breaks. I've had people tell me, "I've had my XYZ brand gun for all these years and it's never broken." To which I answer, "That just tells me that you don't shoot it enough."

[–] 0 pt
I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps (infantry, 1 tour Iraq and 1 tour Liberia during their second civil war), so we can safely assume I'm intimately familiar with rifles and high capacity belt fed weapons of all sorts ... I did become a member of a really well run range in the next county and I have already gotten involved with the people that run it ...(they have a live fire course set up and every month they have a different competition for a different gun class).
The Socom CQB comes with the new Hex Dragonfly scout red dot. I purchased a 700 lumens flashlight with an IR button for when I'm wearing my NVG's. I do need to get a bunch of clips though and of course, like you said....I need to put rounds down range and work the kinks out of my weapons until my muscle memory is on point.