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• (edited )
57 x 28 or 9mm?

I'm on the fence and am trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. I just got the Smith and Wesson M&P 57 (no safety, of course) and its out performing my S&M MP 9c on penetration and accuracy...but the ammo is super expensive.....plus its not a common round. I'm wondering if I should stick with the 9mm for those two reasons? side note: the green tip 57x28's penetrate class 2 body armor and they will put a serious hurting on class 3.

I'm on the fence and am trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. I just got the Smith and Wesson M&P 57 (no safety, of course) and its out performing my S&M MP 9c on penetration and accuracy...but the ammo is super expensive.....plus its not a common round. I'm wondering if I should stick with the 9mm for those two reasons? side note: the green tip 57x28's penetrate class 2 body armor and they will put a serious hurting on class 3.

(post is archived)

[–] • 6 pts (edited )

9mm because it's available and cheap so you can train more.

The chances of being assaulted by people in body armor is near zero outside of ZOG jackboots, and you would need a rifle and comms to survive that.

The real debate is 5.56 NATO or .308 Winchester for a main rifle, and if everyone should have a long-range rifle with optics.

[–] • 1 pt

You should have rifles for different mission capabilities, I would put CQB and one long range marksman rifle with optics as a basic setup. Then sidearms, body armor and harness and related kit, comms, etc. Ideally everyone would spring for NODs and related gear but that shit is so expensive.

[–] • 1 pt

The real debate is 5.56 NATO or .308 Winchester for a main rifle

That's why I have two 5.56 for personnel work under 100 yards and an AR10 in .308 for dealing with vehicles, armor, or 200-400 yards.

[–] • 0 pt

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I have the same philosophy. I've got 5.56 for my main gun, for generic protection/missions/general use. It's cheap, fast, low recoil, accurate, etc. The AR10 would stay at home base or be used for select missions. Base protection vs personnel protection. Specific use vs general use.

Oh Shit! I gotta pick one and run! I'd take the 5.56. With my 9mm as well.

[–] • 0 pt

I have a C308 that also shoots 7.62 x 51. I just got the X-91 50 round drum mag for it and a bi-pod. So I have that squared away. I have a Savage Axis 308 with a scope as well..both are zeroed in and ready to roll... I have an AR-15 and I also bought a Panzer AR-12 shotgun with a 20 round drum mag. ..and of course I have my body armor from when I was in the Marine Corps, I recently updated the plate and bought trauma pads for it... I was debating dropping the 9mm and getting a FN P-90 and the accompanying pistol that both shoot 57x28...but after all the feedback it looks like that would be a serious judgment error.

[–] • 0 pt

The consensus seems to point to a 16" 5.56mm all-rounder, long-range .308, and a .300 BLK SBR. Urban and forest environments may change that, and so would fielding in rural areas, where a longer-range bolt action would be perfect.

5.7 is only great with AP ammo, and 9mm is widely available. Id say get both if you can and branch off later depending on what you feel most comfortable with later.

[–] • 2 pts

Accurately shooting is key. If you're on a budget, 9mm. If you pay to play go 5.7. Shooting a 5.7 is a bizarre experience at first due to almost no recoil. Harder to conceal but capacity and power is hard to beat. Also the ap round for the 5.7 is black tip?

[–] • 1 pt

Black tip in general equates to AP.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

There are no "magic bullets". They wound by cutting, crushing and tearing tissue. They make holes. That's all. Consider the nature of your "90%" threat, and tool up accordingly.

"trying to consolidate ammo for when shtf. "

Then think in terms of availability. 9mm is widely availabe, and relatively inexpensive (especially if you buy in bulk) meaning you can practice more. A pistol with ammo is a weapon. A pistol without ammo is a paperweight.

Shot placement is the primary key to stopping the fight quickly, and I have found face shooting to be most efficacious in this regard.

Lethality-wise, all pistol calibers, in general, are right up there with ninja throwing stars and nunchuks. 90% of the people shot with pistols survive. Many are treated and walk out of the hospital that day.

Nobody goes to a gunfight, on purpose, with only a pistol. A pistol is what you use to either break contact and/or fight your way to a long gun.

Pistols are like a reserve parachute. It's an emergency piece of equipment that you maintain and wear, and are prepared to deploy in order to save your life in extremis. But you wear it and hope that you will never have to use it. And like a reserve parachute, statistically, nobody really needs a pistol. Until suddenly they do. And when you do, you will find that you need one very badly.

(I spent over 40 years doing and teaching this sort of thing for a living on "two-way ranges" on 5 continents, and I'm still here. So listen or not, it's worth what you paid for it. )

[–] • 1 pt

I appreciate the feedback..thank you.

[–] • 0 pt

I returned the 5.7 x 28 S&M and got a Springfield Arms M1A Socom 16 CQB. I sold the ammo at a loss, but oh well...the armory wouldn't take it back. I will stick with my 9mm pistols.

[–] • 1 pt

Good for you. Put a decent two-point sling, red-dot sight, and flashlight on it. Get at least 10 good quality, reliable, magazines. The quickest way to fuck up any magazine fed weapon is to have fucked up magazines.

Next, I would advise that you invest in a good, professionally run carbine course. You would be astonished by what spending a day or two on a range training with someone who does it for a living can do for your proficiency level. It will be worth it. (Tip: have you shit zeroed BEFORE you get there and be ready to train from the git-go. Nobody likes the guy who shows up with all of his brand new gear and having to wait while he unfucks himself.)

Spend the rest on ammo and practice, practice, practice. And by that I don't mean just go out and throw rounds down-range. Having a training plan for the range, just like for the gym. Make every round count toward achieving a training goal, like each rep at the gym.

See what works and see what breaks. I've had people tell me, "I've had my XYZ brand gun for all these years and it's never broken." To which I answer, "That just tells me that you don't shoot it enough."

[–] • 0 pt 
I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps (infantry, 1 tour Iraq and 1 tour Liberia during their second civil war), so we can safely assume I'm intimately familiar with rifles and high capacity belt fed weapons of all sorts ... I did become a member of a really well run range in the next county and I have already gotten involved with the people that run it ...(they have a live fire course set up and every month they have a different competition for a different gun class).
The Socom CQB comes with the new Hex Dragonfly scout red dot. I purchased a 700 lumens flashlight with an IR button for when I'm wearing my NVG's. I do need to get a bunch of clips though and of course, like you said....I need to put rounds down range and work the kinks out of my weapons until my muscle memory is on point.
[–] • 0 pt

If your intent is SHTF and you manage to survive the initial chaos which do you think will be easier to resupply in the dystopian aftermath. 9mm or five seven?

TLDR; if you buy a five seven hit the gym because you'll only be using it to bludgeon people.

[–] • 0 pt

lol, yeah....your right. I'm gonna stick with my Smith and Wesson M&P 9c

[–] • 0 pt

If you can afford 5.7, shoot it. It’s better than 9mm.

[–] • 0 pt

Yes, for those two reasons