No, it's how the Jews gained so much power over our countries.
No, it's how the Jews gained so much power over our countries.
i am for simple interest but not compound interest...linear versus exponential growth
i am for simple interest but not compound interest...linear versus exponential growth
You are honing in on the issue of the total price of borrowed money, when all is said and done.
But what about the problem of how it shapes markets? A certain amount of people would prefer to save for their purchases rather than take out a loan. However, they are competing against the buyers who are willing to take out a loan -- buyers who are able to outbid them on price even though it will be more costly to themselves in the long run.
Would this not put upward pressure on prices so that even debt-averse people are faced with a market where goods cost more? That in my view is where lending goes foul.
You are honing in on the issue of the total price of borrowed money, when all is said and done.
But what about the problem of how it shapes markets? A certain amount of people would prefer to save for their purchases rather than take out a loan. However, they are competing against the buyers who are willing to take out a loan -- buyers who are able to outbid them on price even though it will be more costly to themselves in the long run.
Would this not put upward pressure on prices so that even debt-averse people are faced with a market where goods cost more? That in my view is where lending goes foul.
Upward pressure on prices and upward pressure on interest rates would allow for a new equilibrium equal to the "area under the curve" for current prices, interest rates on compound interests, time, etc.
if wages were to also go up, I think not much would change for your average person
This would mean doing away with interest all together to have a significant change.
Upward pressure on prices and upward pressure on interest rates would allow for a new equilibrium equal to the "area under the curve" for current prices, interest rates on compound interests, time, etc.
if wages were to also go up, I think not much would change for your average person
This would mean doing away with interest all together to have a significant change.
That's a big if, though. Do wages go up proportionally to prices in a market influenced by lending?
There is a new equilibrium, yes, but with a third party, lenders, profiting from each transaction. When resale is an option (as in real estate), then maybe the new equilibrium is not unfair in the long run, but what about where resale is not an option, such as college tuition expenses? Is the new equilibrium with the third party functionally the same as the old equilibrium?
That's a big if, though. Do wages go up proportionally to prices in a market influenced by lending?
There is a new equilibrium, yes, but with a third party, lenders, profiting from each transaction. When resale is an option (as in real estate), then maybe the new equilibrium is not unfair in the long run, but what about where resale is not an option, such as college tuition expenses? Is the new equilibrium with the third party functionally the same as the old equilibrium?
Any type of agreement between two people, whether the interest rate is one goat per day or 10000% per year, should be legal. Only fraud should be illegal- tricking a person to enter into an agreement with you. Usury in the way AOC has been tweeting about lately, as in high rates that take advantage of the poor, should not be regulated by the govt. If you take out a loan with an extremely high interest rate, you should be thankful that it is the best rate you can find. The only thing the govt will accomplish if it caps credit card interest rates at 15% is that it will make it illegal for people to get credit card at all who were going to be charged more than 15%. Since the banks will lose revenue, they'll have to raise the rates of the people who still qualify.
In terms of usury and our economy, if it 'went away' we would be living in the stone age. Literally. The only form of currency would be gold itself. Our modern money systems are built on debt, not the underlying value of anything. Fractional reserve money and fiat money are both based in debt.
The mechanism by which we 'print' money is a form of usury. The fed doesn't just print it and shovel it into the streets. The US Treasury deposits a bogus check, which would bounce if deposited in any other bank on earth other than the Fed, and the fed accepts that check and prints money to give back to the Treasury. Our entire monetary system is built on usury.
Any type of agreement between two people, whether the interest rate is one goat per day or 10000% per year, should be legal. Only fraud should be illegal- tricking a person to enter into an agreement with you. Usury in the way AOC has been tweeting about lately, as in high rates that take advantage of the poor, should not be regulated by the govt. If you take out a loan with an extremely high interest rate, you should be thankful that it is the best rate you can find. The only thing the govt will accomplish if it caps credit card interest rates at 15% is that it will make it illegal for people to get credit card at all who were going to be charged more than 15%. Since the banks will lose revenue, they'll have to raise the rates of the people who still qualify.
In terms of usury and our economy, if it 'went away' we would be living in the stone age. Literally. The only form of currency would be gold itself. Our modern money systems are built on debt, not the underlying value of anything. Fractional reserve money and fiat money are both based in debt.
The mechanism by which we 'print' money is a form of usury. The fed doesn't just print it and shovel it into the streets. The US Treasury deposits a bogus check, which would bounce if deposited in any other bank on earth other than the Fed, and the fed accepts that check and prints money to give back to the Treasury. Our entire monetary system is built on usury.
It means that a dollar bill represents usury. It is usury. If all usury went away, all dollars would go away. We would have to trade and barter.
There are no skilled workers in the US if usury went away. It would take over a decade for us to build a manufacturing infrastructure to support our consumption. In the meantime, we would have nothing. We are the beneficiaries of the global gravy train, because we are the biggest users of usury on earth. Other countries toil away making actual goods, and we send them pieces of paper in return.
It means that a dollar bill represents usury. It is usury. If all usury went away, all dollars would go away. We would have to trade and barter.
There are no skilled workers in the US if usury went away. It would take over a decade for us to build a manufacturing infrastructure to support our consumption. In the meantime, we would have nothing. We are the beneficiaries of the global gravy train, because we are the biggest users of usury on earth. Other countries toil away making actual goods, and we send them pieces of paper in return.
Interesting. With regards to our currency, is it a good thing we have it this way?
Interesting. With regards to our currency, is it a good thing we have it this way?
It's great for Americans right now, because we don't have to do anything and the rest of the world ships us their products and we give them worthless paper in return. It's terrible for us in the long run, and will ultimately be the end of the country, because the fall of most civilizations throughout history has been brought on by its government devaluing their currency. Inflation is the silent tax. It destroys the purchasing power of our money. It's the reason why the working man gets poorer and poorer. People think that government entitlement programs are going to equal the playing field, but it only exacerbates the problem and sends us hurdling even faster towards monetary chaos. The only real way to help the poor in the long run is to build a factory and hire them to work in it. Our electorate is not prepared for something like that though, and they will ultimately vote in more entitlement programs and choose to sit on their ass and get free stuff. When China decides that our ride on the global gravy train is over, we'll be the financial equivalent of Venezuela, ie nobody will be able to afford milk at $500 a gallon and people will be burning dollars in the street to stay warm. The government will start a bread line, and everybody will have the socialism that they want.
It's great for Americans right now, because we don't have to do anything and the rest of the world ships us their products and we give them worthless paper in return. It's terrible for us in the long run, and will ultimately be the end of the country, because the fall of most civilizations throughout history has been brought on by its government devaluing their currency. Inflation is the silent tax. It destroys the purchasing power of our money. It's the reason why the working man gets poorer and poorer. People think that government entitlement programs are going to equal the playing field, but it only exacerbates the problem and sends us hurdling even faster towards monetary chaos. The only real way to help the poor in the long run is to build a factory and hire them to work in it. Our electorate is not prepared for something like that though, and they will ultimately vote in more entitlement programs and choose to sit on their ass and get free stuff. When China decides that our ride on the global gravy train is over, we'll be the financial equivalent of Venezuela, ie nobody will be able to afford milk at $500 a gallon and people will be burning dollars in the street to stay warm. The government will start a bread line, and everybody will have the socialism that they want.
From what little I know it seems like a necessary evil. Lending helps the world go round and if it were to stop tomorrow it wouldnt be good for anyone. Now a tapering off might be ok but we would probably need something in its place. What that is I have no idea but rapid change always comes with difficulties.
From what little I know it seems like a necessary evil. Lending helps the world go round and if it were to stop tomorrow it wouldnt be good for anyone. Now a tapering off might be ok but we would probably need something in its place. What that is I have no idea but rapid change always comes with difficulties.
No doubt if it stopped tomorrow it'd be disasterous. And even if we gradually tapered it off, it would be constant, feelable pain. It's like holding a wolf by the ears. You're either gonna get scratched to shit for as long as you hold on or you're gonna let go and have to deal with a wolf.
No doubt if it stopped tomorrow it'd be disasterous. And even if we gradually tapered it off, it would be constant, feelable pain. It's like holding a wolf by the ears. You're either gonna get scratched to shit for as long as you hold on or you're gonna let go and have to deal with a wolf.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering if usury/interest is any different than any other kind of financial transaction. If I go into a retail shop and buy something for 100, I can be sure that that thing cost less than 100 to make. So I bought something for 100 that's not really worth 100. Let's say it's worth 80. So if the thing is not worth 100, what's the extra stuff that I'm paying 20 for? Well, it's for the ability to buy the thing right here at this retail shop. Without the retail shop, where would I get this thing for 80? Would I have to travel to the manufacturer? Maybe avoiding that is worth 20 to me. I think that's what I've implied by paying 100 right here for this thing that's worth 80 if I travel over there. So I've paid the retailer 20 to do the legwork for me. I'm contributing to his daily sustenance so that he can continue to be here so that I can buy these things from him.
Now, unrelated to the foregoing, let's think of a loan. I need something that costs 80, but I've got no money. My neighbor has some money, so he gives me 80, with the promise that I'll pay him back 100 at a future date. Once again, I'm paying 100 and getting something that's worth 80. So why am I paying that extra 20 to my neighbor? It seems like the same, but opposite, reason I paid 20 to the retailer. With the retailer, I paid 20 to provide him with sustenance. With the neighbor, I paid 20 for having deprived him of sustenance. After all, maybe that's all the money he had. Or maybe he has a million times that amount. There's a reason he has it -- maybe to provide for his clan, maybe he plans to do something grand someday. Maybe that day will arrive tomorrow and he'll find himself short because he gave me a loan. In any case, I have deprived him of his own resources.
Just as I willingly pay 20 to the retailer to contribute to the resources he needs to sustain himself, so I pay 20 to the neighbor to compensate for the resources that I have deprived him of. They're both giving me something I need, and I'm buying them bread.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering if usury/interest is any different than any other kind of financial transaction. If I go into a retail shop and buy something for 100, I can be sure that that thing cost less than 100 to make. So I bought something for 100 that's not really worth 100. Let's say it's worth 80. So if the thing is not worth 100, what's the extra stuff that I'm paying 20 for? Well, it's for the ability to buy the thing right here at this retail shop. Without the retail shop, where would I get this thing for 80? Would I have to travel to the manufacturer? Maybe avoiding that is worth 20 to me. I think that's what I've implied by paying 100 right here for this thing that's worth 80 if I travel over there. So I've paid the retailer 20 to do the legwork for me. I'm contributing to his daily sustenance so that he can continue to be here so that I can buy these things from him.
Now, unrelated to the foregoing, let's think of a loan. I need something that costs 80, but I've got no money. My neighbor has some money, so he gives me 80, with the promise that I'll pay him back 100 at a future date. Once again, I'm paying 100 and getting something that's worth 80. So why am I paying that extra 20 to my neighbor? It seems like the same, but opposite, reason I paid 20 to the retailer. With the retailer, I paid 20 to provide him with sustenance. With the neighbor, I paid 20 for having deprived him of sustenance. After all, maybe that's all the money he had. Or maybe he has a million times that amount. There's a reason he has it -- maybe to provide for his clan, maybe he plans to do something grand someday. Maybe that day will arrive tomorrow and he'll find himself short because he gave me a loan. In any case, I have deprived him of his own resources.
Just as I willingly pay 20 to the retailer to contribute to the resources he needs to sustain himself, so I pay 20 to the neighbor to compensate for the resources that I have deprived him of. They're both giving me something I need, and I'm buying them bread.
Usury was supposedly never legal in the church but popes would just hire "Jews" to do it.
Usury was supposedly never legal in the church but popes would just hire "Jews" to do it.
I would ban USURY personally and when someone buys a home they pay a fee of $40,000 to $70,000 upfront rather than it prolonged out through interest rates on top of the loan.
If someone takes out a loan they pay / know the fee upfront and if it's $5,000 know they will have to pay back $500 or $750 on that loan.
So that way people know exactly what they are getting themselves into and how much it will cost in the long run.
Also White Christian / White Catholic Bibles - Can't agree with it to say the least due to this as well. Ban Usury entirely.
Ban Usury entirely - no interest on loans - fees are calculated up front and built into the loans. That way everyone knows personally what they are getting themselves into at that point then.
I would ban USURY personally and when someone buys a home they pay a fee of $40,000 to $70,000 upfront rather than it prolonged out through interest rates on top of the loan.
If someone takes out a loan they pay / know the fee upfront and if it's $5,000 know they will have to pay back $500 or $750 on that loan.
So that way people know exactly what they are getting themselves into and how much it will cost in the long run.
Also White Christian / White Catholic Bibles - Can't agree with it to say the least due to this as well. Ban Usury entirely.
Ban Usury entirely - no interest on loans - fees are calculated up front and built into the loans. That way everyone knows personally what they are getting themselves into at that point then.
NS Germany ended usury, as in interest slavery, and very quickly the economy boomed and from a post war broken people Germany surpassed all others, employment was at an all time high. The commodities and stocks were removed from the global exchange, the financial institutions audited and many liquidated and expropriated, and only bonds were permitted. In a double bonus (two birds with one stone) for the state and nation, a baby boom was facilitated by financial incentive in interest free government loans for families where 1 child would cut 25% off the state loan, 50% for two children, 75% for 3 children, and 100% free home for 4 children (that and other incentives).
If they could do it, why can't we? Interest slavery is not a boon, it is rotten to the core, and the food for financial predators on peoples suffering and lifelong slavery.
NS Germany ended usury, as in interest slavery, and very quickly the economy boomed and from a post war broken people Germany surpassed all others, employment was at an all time high. The commodities and stocks were removed from the global exchange, the financial institutions audited and many liquidated and expropriated, and only bonds were permitted. In a double bonus (two birds with one stone) for the state and nation, a baby boom was facilitated by financial incentive in interest free government loans for families where 1 child would cut 25% off the state loan, 50% for two children, 75% for 3 children, and 100% free home for 4 children (that and other incentives).
If they could do it, why can't we? Interest slavery is not a boon, it is rotten to the core, and the food for financial predators on peoples suffering and lifelong slavery.
No. The ability to take a loan solves so many problems. Be prepared to see businesses go under left and right when they have a minor cashflow issue. Be prepared to see people go under for the same thing.
Not only that, but the exchange of money at interest sets up its own market with its own relatively stable prices (interest rate) and there being a stableish interest rate and lending people possible creates a capital market. All the shit you work on that isn't an immediate consumable would not be available work because that market would be reduced by 90%, and your society wouldn't have the benefits of capital.. So I guess you would have work, working in a field with a scythe.
Worse yet it's going to happen anyway because it solves human problems, so now you end up with a black usury market that will definitely vindicate your choice because, hey, look how evil usury is when its run by literal gangsters.
No. The ability to take a loan solves so many problems. Be prepared to see businesses go under left and right when they have a minor cashflow issue. Be prepared to see people go under for the same thing.
Not only that, but the exchange of money at interest sets up its own market with its own relatively stable prices (interest rate) and there being a stableish interest rate and lending people possible creates a capital market. All the shit you work on that isn't an immediate consumable would not be available work because that market would be reduced by 90%, and your society wouldn't have the benefits of capital.. So I guess you would have work, working in a field with a scythe.
Worse yet it's going to happen anyway because it solves human problems, so now you end up with a black usury market that will definitely vindicate your choice because, hey, look how evil usury is when its run by literal gangsters.
No one has brought up the black market scenario yet. Good point.
No one has brought up the black market scenario yet. Good point.
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