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And as a secondary question, what happens when the chinks control all of the foundries that we should have had at home.

I hate to say it lads but somehow we seriously fucked up.

And as a secondary question, what happens when the chinks control all of the foundries that we should have had at home. I hate to say it lads but somehow we seriously fucked up.

(post is archived)

[–] 3 pts

Semiconductor manufacturing is very very competitive. The cost of mfg each chip can be cut by increasing wafer size and/or reduced geometries. There are manufacturing limits to these variables. The equipment required to use the biggest silicon wafers and create chips of the smallest geometries are outrageously expensive. Even the buildings containing these fabs must be vibration proof.

In the ealy days grants/contracts from Mil/Aero had helped many young US semiconductor companies to grow quickly.

America has had a few older semiconductor companies, a great consolidation of these companies took place in the 1990s through buyouts - stock prices were soaring as US jobs went off shore ; product obsolescence, efficiency and innovation determined the winners and losers 1980s-2001. During Bill Clinton's first term the tide shifted in another way. Military/Aerospace chip manufacturing no longer had to be manufactured stateside. Then we had another thinning of the herd with the dot com crash.

TSMC has been leading edge semiconductor manufacturing for at least 30 years. Their process technology is top shelf.

This high quality FAB opened the door for American semiconductor manufacturers to remove the costly fabrication process - expensive American fabs, employees, etc and simply contract the wafers to be reliably made by TSMC on their stable processes. US companies could avoid expanding their own fab capacity by using TSMC as a buffer if they designed to TSMCs process.

The surviving fabs in the US have upgraded their equipment too, but for many the chips they make may contain more analog circuitry which won't benefit much from smaller geometries. They are still competive cost wise on smaller wafers so these US fabs continue. Then there are the cutting edge US fabs by the most successful like INTEL, but they make their own chips there and are sized to support an anticipated demand for their product. I'm not aware of any US fab with TSMCs business model - you design it to our process and we will make them for you. It would require billions per fab to recreate.

2nd question. My opinion is as long as we have access to the same bleeding edge equipment vendors, we can recreate the capacity here in 3-4 years - but that equipment likely has TSMC chips in it too. China would certainly have a time advantage and meanwhile American companies depending upon TSMC for their chips will be blackmailed by China to share their IP. China can control products that currently use TSMC chips - computers, phones, tvs, cars ...

My 2 cents.

[–] 3 pts

During Bill Clinton's first term the tide shifted in another way. Military/Aerospace chip manufacturing no longer had to be manufactured stateside.

Sheer lunacy.

[–] 1 pt

Sheer lunacy

My exact thought at the time.

[–] 1 pt

Bill Clinton was on China's payroll. Pushing it offshore meant easier technology access for theft.

Norm McDonald used to make jokes about Bill on China's payroll on snl back in the day.

[–] 0 pt

Billy gave us a lot of "WTF" moments, including the repeal of Glass-Steagall which allowed the housing crash to happen.

[–] 1 pt

When businesses say American labor is expensive, what they mean is they want to sell to a population with disposable income, but they don't want the cost of creating that population with disposable income. Let some other sucker pay for that.