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I've been struggling with this question and wanted to see what others think. If we worked on changing hearts on things like abortion and homosexuality, so that more and more people would choose Godliness and be saved, would that nullify the disfavor our nations experience from God, at having such awful laws that permit unholy things from taking place, or is there a necessary element in having laws that prohibit such things?

We truly, I believe, no longer have governments that represent our will at large as citizenries, so would it even matter what laws we have when it comes to judging our holiness as nations? Is the goal of things like overturning Roe v Wade to cause further division, and make it less likely for an uncertain mother to consider giving birth to instead of aborting her baby?

I've been struggling with this question and wanted to see what others think. If we worked on changing hearts on things like abortion and homosexuality, so that more and more people would choose Godliness and be saved, would that nullify the disfavor our nations experience from God, at having such awful laws that permit unholy things from taking place, or is there a necessary element in having laws that prohibit such things? We truly, I believe, no longer have governments that represent our will at large as citizenries, so would it even matter what laws we have when it comes to judging our holiness as nations? Is the goal of things like overturning Roe v Wade to cause further division, and make it less likely for an uncertain mother to consider giving birth to instead of aborting her baby?

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[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

All that is of concern to God is the individual.

Nations are irrelevant. They are a consequence of the fall of Man.

Furthermore, the virtue of a nation, or lack of same, plays no role in the judgement of the individual. If you are not seeking the will of God, then you are working against Him. The "rightous" nation you live in does not change that.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

This is not consistent with the Bible. There was something about Sodom and Gomorrah that made God choose them as nations and societies that were so corrupt, so bad that he wanted to destroy them. The ignorant Christian interpretation of this is based on them wanting to go homo with some angels appearing as humans. This doesn't add up as being the problem, because there were plenty of other places in the world with homosexual practices taking place. For over a thousand years the Jewish interpretation was that Sodom and Gomorrah were neglectful and abusive to the most helpless people such as widows, orphans, the disabled, and strangers who traveled to the land. There is a fable they told about the people there receiving a stranger by giving them a pocket-sized piece of gold (still worth a lot). Following this, nobody would sell to them. Since these places were remote, they would become famished and then be vulnerable to having everything they have taken from them. It's not very believable, but it does represent the typical interpretation of the story before Christians made it about homosexuality.

I do think it is of concern that they wanted to get freaky with strangers who just walked in there, which is actually rape and not just gay sex. That indicates how inhospitable they were to outsiders, though.

It is important to note that God was willing to consider any righteous individual, and that is when he found Lot who qualified.

I imagine the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would be like a giant pile of rap CDs to me. Oh look, another stupid nigger that's talking about stupid nigger shit. I'm not going to listen to any of them. There's no interest in that huge pile of repugnant garbage at all. If CDs were as valuable as people, I might be willing to search the whole pile to see if there is anything in there that isn't nigger garbage. I'd gladly blow up all the nigger garbage, though.

[–] • 0 pt

Then explain the fall of nations which are made up of individuals, once great nations fall new ones are built and yet they fall as well

[–] • 1 pt

Unless nations are run by godly people, which they generally never are, then the inherent corruption will always be the downfall of the nation. All the greed and even sometimes evil (desire to harm others even if it isn't profitable) automatically makes the nation rot and decay. Having kings and emperors made governance simple, and you also had a single, solitary person who had the selfish interest in making the nation great and strong. Who wants to be king of a dung heap? Also, if your nation was not strong and capable of defending itself, outsiders could come in and conquer the place.

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

the explanation is the fall of Man. When Man decided to work outside of the design of the Creator, chaos was let in.

It is no surprise that Man is self-destructive. This is the reason why God sent HIs son, to bring about the New Covenant. Bringing a guiding light of the Holy Spirit into the hearts of those who willingly seek God.