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723

Global oil demand now is lower than pre-biden.

American oil demand is lower because of unemployment and less travel. High prices always further reduce travel.

If global oil demand is in fact growing, where is it going? Is there some hidden moves going on here?

How can oil companies make record profit with reduced demand?

Obviously much fuckery a foot. But welcome varying perspective of the greater stage at hand?

Is the oil supply actually stressed? Production stressed? Or all shell games?

Global oil demand now is lower than pre-biden. American oil demand is lower because of unemployment and less travel. High prices always further reduce travel. If global oil demand is in fact growing, where is it going? Is there some hidden moves going on here? How can oil companies make record profit with reduced demand? Obviously much fuckery a foot. But welcome varying perspective of the greater stage at hand? Is the oil supply actually stressed? Production stressed? Or all shell games?

(post is archived)

[–] 11 pts

A lot more products besides gasoline come out of a modern oil refinery. Using catalytic cracking units and catalytic reformers, hydrocarbons can be made into smaller or larger chains with relative ease. Refineries adjust their production according to the market demand for various fuels, lubricants and other specialty chemicals. While refined fuels like gasoline or JP8 jet fuel may have lower demand in the market, other products like cyclohexane or xylene might be fetching a premium so the refinery will ramp up production of those molecules over gasoline production. It's not a simple matter of accounting only for fuel demand/supply economics when it comes to the oil refining business. You have to look at everything a refinery can do in order to see the economics properly.

[–] 5 pts

Excellent comment. Thank you.

I'm aware of what you discuss here, but also know I don't know enough to research it. If you can provide a deeper breakout on production vs market demand vs market changes over the last five years or do, that would be great.

For example, what would drive significant increases in market demand for cyclohexane or xylene (or whatever offsets other production)? Solvents for big pharma vaxx production? But really, anything which provides a deeper grasp of what's actually going on is helpful.

[–] 9 pts

It's been over 20 years since I worked for a refinery (electrical engineer), but I can say that back then the demand for global specialty chemicals was driven by other chemical producers who use various hydrocarbon feedstocks in their own product production. I remember pharma being one of the big customers, but there were many other chemical plants that took our products for production of engineered resins and for elastomers. The refinery I worked at had specialized units for producing intermediates for agribusiness and even produced MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) under license from ADM (Archer Daniels Midland- evil company) for blending ethanol derived from corn into gasoline. We also produced fuels and lubricants under license for other oil refining companies that did not have market presence in the regional area. Yes, refiners can produce product for their competing companies if there is money to be made. Exxon might have gas in the station tanks made by Chevron and vice-versa. Pretty crazy, right? Reminds me of the days when AMD would make Intel processors under license in their fabs, but that no longer happens because of bad blood.

I never really delved much into the trading and market side of the business. I do know that the trading was fierce and a ship's contents could change owners several times en route to the port it will unload at. Buying and selling oil while on the ship is a big thing and we had a special group that did nothing but trade product that was coming or going on a ship while it was at sea. The market demands did influence the configuration of the plant, but some products require too much time to shift as there are process and mechanical changes needed to make that happen so some oil derivatives were only made if there was a good long term forecast for such products. Other chemicals could be pulled out of a tank and reformed into something else if the market got hot for a particular product. They really do move around a lot on production and it was fascinating to be a part of it even though it squelched my desire to continue on with EE work. Switched careers to programming and I'm much better off having done so.

This might not be what you were looking for here, but my process engineering friends and colleagues knew that business way better than I did. Many of them are still in it today but that ship sailed for me and I wouldn't go back even if I had no other options. It was a cut-throat game and I worked for tyrants. Never going back...

[–] 3 pts

This is the first human conversation we've ever had. Thank you for that. While it's not specifically what I'm looking for the commentary is interesting. I appreciate you taking the time to share.

Thank you.

[–] [deleted] 3 pts

Remember when oil prices went negative because they shut down the planet?

[–] 1 pt

Yeah, and shockingly oil companies shut down a bit. I had stock in one that went under. It can't just be turned back on like a spigot. Unless you're Saudi. But you have to convince them.

[–] 2 pts

Prices are up because supply is reduced.

There is no shortage of global oil - the Earth is awash in oil.

There is, however, control over the production, refining, and shipping of oil based end products - like fuel and fertilizer.

Shortages are appearing in the disrupted logistics of the oil industry, and financial markets are responding to that.

Prices are also up because computer AI is anticipating future price increases and is gaming the financial markets. In my opinion, computer AI tends to exacerbate the severity of global financial market trends, both up and down.

They say Russian oil is offline - Russian oil is not offline. The Russians are selling their oil to the Chinese and Indians, instead of the Europeans. So the Chinese and Indians are not buying their oil from the Arabs. The Europeans will now buy the Arab oil that the Chinese and Indians have stopped buying.

Logistically, the flow of oil has changed direction. The quantity of oil produced and consumed will not change all that much.

Prices should trend back down sooner or later.

China and India are getting the best deal on oil prices they have ever had.

[–] 1 pt

AI is largely driven by GPUs ie graphics cards, which I imagine started this whole inflation fiasco, it took 2 years for that shit to come back to earth, so I hope gas prices don't follow a similar trend.

[–] 0 pt

GPUs started the inflation fiasco or AI powered the GPU fiasco? I don't think either of those things are true, but I can't tell what you're saying

[–] 0 pt

GPUs and the machine learning which they provide is basically top tier AI. You don't have to believe me, won't change things. The demand for cheap machine learning cards and the crypto mining basically fucked up the whole graphics card market. AI ran by GPUs are basically at the forefront of machine learning, all those AI papers you see in 2 minute papers are done on GPUs. GPUs powered machine learning AI also has huge implications for wall street and for stock trading. Again, you can believe whatever you want to believe.

[–] 1 pt

Obviously because the Trumpsters and the Nazi Republicans are in a massive conspiracy to destroy the economy and blame Biden for it! /s

[–] 1 pt

So far Biden has blamed Drumpf, Putin, Saudi, Exxon, employers, and Real Americans.

[–] 0 pt

CERN takes a lot of energy to run at full power, it's not enough to import Africans, but now they have to import trans** dimensional aliens.