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[–] • 10 pts

Authority is power. It is earned by trust or force. It's made void when its trust is gone or another force renders it neutered.

[–] • 3 pts

It's a real perversion of our instincts.

In tribal times, which was the vast majority of human evolution, authority was granted to someone who just made good choices. Someone who literally knew everyone in the tribe, some sort of elder with a track record of good judgment. If someone protests the judgement, they would be shunned.

The more agrarian we got, the tribes began to grow into small societies, and authority slowly shifted from a person's good judgment on an individual dispute into a person's proclamation on a general matter. If someone protests the judgment, they would be forcibly beaten.

Now we live in the largest society of all time, and all tribal instinct ls have betrayed us.

We elect people who appear old and wise, and demand they implement rules to keep us orderly, and people are imprisoned and executed.

Thank God Guns Exist.

[–] • 4 pts

Agreed. We elect actors who understand how to cheat and lie. There was a line in the matrix movie that pretty well summed us deplorables very well...

his sheeple don't want "sentimentality" or freedom – they want to be controlled. They crave the comfort of certainty that the Matrix provides for them.

[–] • 2 pts

It is earned by trust or force

I contend that the blending of "might makes right" with authority is false. The term has obviously been used that way for decades, in my opinion to intentionally remove the principle that authority requires delegation of power. "Authority" claimed by force alone is not authority at all but tyranny.

[–] • 2 pts

True. However, people often conflate tyranny with authority as is the case now. We clearly have tyranny now. Authority left the room decades ago. Further, we have no government. What passes for government is corporate feudalism. What we think of as politicians are mercenaries hired by these fascist corporations.

[–] • 2 pts (edited )

hired by these fascist corporations.

Oh bullshit. Corporations are owned by PEOPLE. Corporations have boards and shareholders. Those board seats and shareholder votes are owned by Blackrock, Vanguard, and other funds. Those funds are owned by the Rothschilds and other wealthy banking families. These wealthy banking families have NGOs and "Foundations" that their owned corporations donate money to in order to not pay taxes, which just redirects their wealth back to themselves tax free. Then these foundations donate to political campaigns, and launder money through groups of "members" to donate to political campaigns, in order to control all the important levers of government, and the governments' armies. Their media corporations and tech companies that they also owned are there to keep everyone distracted, divided, and complacent with whatever crazy, evil shit they want to do next, like depopulation and digital ID. They own the central banks that control our debt and money supply. They literally own and control everything behind layers of obfuscation like "corporations" "NGOs" and "Foundations".

It's the Rothschilds, Schiffs, Sacklers of the world. NOT corporations. Corporations are there to disguise who is really in control.

[–] • 1 pt

Yes. That's what I'm getting at. The word "authority" carries the idea of moral or rightful obligation to obey. The decades-long conflation of authority with tyranny is to produce a generation of people who either feel morally obligated to obey tyrants or to fall into the trap of believing that force alone generates rightful authority.

[–] • 2 pts

What does it matter what name you give the people who are putting you in prison?

[–] • 2 pts (edited )

When you view the world that way you are nothing but a sucker. Calling something tyranny or authority makes no difference if both mean you are ruled by someone else. We do not live in an imaginary world where no group uses violence and everyone is peaceful and reasonable. All it takes is one group willing to use force, and the peaceful/reasonable people end up slaves. This is why libertarianism is an idiotic belief system. It has no check and balance for those willing to scheme for more power. It doesn't always happen suddenly with a coup. The coup can happen over generations or even hundreds of years, if the attacking group is playing the very long game. This is how we ended up where we are today. Powerful families with an extremist/religious in-group preference that they hide from outsiders usurping control of the forces/authorities that keep the societies intact, planning beyond their own lifespan into the lifespan of their kids, grand kids, great grand kids, and so on.

[–] • 0 pt

All it takes is one group willing to use force, and the peaceful/reasonable people end up slaves.

Why do you assume that just authority and reasonable men cannot also use force?

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

>"Authority" claimed by force alone is not authority at all but tyranny.

Call it what you want, the problem remains the same; what are you going to do about it? How? By playing semantics? Poetry?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/authority

the moral or legal right or ability to control

the power to control or demand obedience from others

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/authority

the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.

...

Whether that power is tyrannic or not is irrelevant, it doesn't make it just go away, ask north koreans

Vastrightwing is absolutely right

[–] • 0 pt

Half your definitions included "moral" or "right". And that's what I'm getting at. It's low IQ to pretend that force alone generates authority, which carries the idea of moral or rightful obligation for obedience. It's important because authority and tyranny are opposites and we should then act differently with regard to them.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

I agree

I think there is a slight difference between authority and power - authority is closely related to power, but they're not exactly the same.

Like our military and police are raw power. An elected sheriff is granted authority (and with it power) but the sheriff loses that power once he's no longer sherif. And he doesn't gain it from direct power, he doesn't have to beat up the strongest cop, but rather everyone agrees that he SHOULD have that power.

There's probably a better way to explain this but I think there is a difference.

[–] • 7 pts

Why would you ever listen to someone else?

Sometimes you listen to another person because they actually have a good idea, they may have better judgement than you, or, they might actually be smarter than you, and actually be looking out for your best interest.

Sometimes you listen to another person because if you don't, they'll kick the shit out of you and take away your children and put your parents into an institution while forcing your wife to prostitute herself so she doesn' starve while you rot and get raped in a cage by a bunch of niggers.

Modern Government is more the latter and less the former.

[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

Modern Government is more the latter and less the former.

More and more so every day.

[–] [deleted] • 3 pts

The authority, what it boils down to, is ultimately the one who would have the upper hand in a violent encounter. Authority is granted under threat of violence if it is challenged or resisted. Authority is made void through defeating it's violence with counter-violence, or possessing a threat of violence greater than theirs.

[–] • 1 pt

This is the correct answer. All authority stems from the ability to commit violence.

[–] • 2 pts (edited )

Justified authority is based on wisdom.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

But that only gives us a new question: What is wise?

Wisdom is fluffy AF, but it is definitely a real thing we all can estimate. Wise men are especially good at recognizing wisdom. This brings us to the following circular reasoning: Wisdom is what wise men see as wise.

That in turn gives us the question: How do we recognize a wise man? and finally we're getting somewhere!

**A wise person is one who has high scores in the metrics Aristotle set up in **

Or if you prefer something Christian then a wise man is a man that adheres to the Christian virtues.

[–] • 1 pt

The ultimate form of authority is violence. It is granted by me and taken by you when you say no and grow a pair to force it to void. Then you are the ultimate authority and someone is coming at you! It sucks but it is.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

Authority comes from assent.

Assent can come from agreement on moral law, ideology, or even fear. It can originate from a lot of sources.

For most of history authority trumped power because authority dictated who commanded power.

Money decides who provides the means to exercise power, to arm the armies, and pay the bill to retain the strong arm. Even going way back, with rare exceptions like the crusades, the churchs supporting lords at one level or another still had to pay to feed and arm their soldiers.

Power in the raw sense is logistics: arms + food + transport + manpower + organization

Authority commands power. Power reinforces authority.

[–] • 0 pt

For most White people authority was historically granted by god. The Holy Roman Empire decided who would be the authority in these times as they were considered by the people to be appointed by god. Boodlines would also determine authority in some cases. It was made void when they were removed from power which could happen in many ways and for many different reasons.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

Another way of looking at it is that Power and not authority, is granted or made void. Authority is understanding, as in, I have authority in the field of (whatever). Authority is competence. Power is not competence. But competence is rayciss, ablest, dickist, and all the things now so we're fucked. All we're allowed is power. It will probably take power to bring back authority. Someone with a brain is going to have to play rough for a while.

And Authority cannot be made void, it's a permanent attribute, but it can be ignored in favor of raw power.

[–] • 0 pt

The author of something has authority on it. You build it, you have a say.

[–] • 0 pt

Born within consciousness is the power of authority.

We create authority.

What happens if everyone stops believing Joe Biden is the PotUS? Everyone. Including the secret service? He has no more authority. Nothing. What happens if everyone starts believing Bob in Chattanooga is the supreme leader of the world? He becomes the supreme leader of the world.

What happens if we repeat those 2 same thought experiments but it's only a simple majority? Well, then the minority dissident opinion reaction determines if that authority is legitimized enough to quell opposition.

What happens if we repeat those 2 same thought experiments but it's only a plurality? Same thing: the remaining minority dissident opinion reaction determines if that authority is legitimized enough to quell opposition.

[–] • 0 pt

Authority derives from the ability to inflict violence. If someone can inflict violence upon you and you cannot overcome that violence, they have authority over you. No amount of wisdom or trust will overcome the violence because they choose to wield violence whenever any perceived threat is presented to them. He who can inflict the most violence without being taken down has ultimate authority over the others. It is built in to human and animal nature. Power is merely a secondary effect from the threat of inflicting violence. Once a man has proven he can dominate you through violence, he need only threaten you with violence to maintain power. We see this today in all governments.

While it is nice to believe that authority and power should derive from trust or wisdom or even that which is best for the greater good, at the end of the day only violence matters. Trust and wisdom and vision can all be neutered with the swinging of a sword or the firing of a gun. This is why violence has to be used to remove those in positions of authority. There is no non-violent approach that works if the authoritarians decide your methods are useless and turn to violence to drive that point home. This is where we are right now in the world. All non-violent methods are useless as those with authority have rejected them and instead threaten us with violence to maintain their position. Our forefathers knew this and left us instructions for how to correct the problem. We need to follow those instructions.

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