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If the underlying layers are completely hosed, how reliable or safe can these apps really be? Even assuming full blown TLS and SSL, I'm still not convinced these apps are that good. For example, Signal doesnt allow you to set a conversation password or cert, which makes me think it's nothing more than giving false hope to idiots

If the underlying layers are completely hosed, how reliable or safe can these apps really be? Even assuming full blown TLS and SSL, I'm still not convinced these apps are that good. For example, Signal doesnt allow you to set a conversation password or cert, which makes me think it's nothing more than giving false hope to idiots

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They're not safe at all.

Exactly. I'm sure they all have backdoors. They try to obscure the fact in court cases by claiming they planted a device on the target's device. I think they just decrypt at will. Not because encryption isn't secure, but because it's intentionally designed that way.