You can certainly use a quick set mud on the first coat. If you have a large area you have to mix small batches and work fast. I use a 45 minute easy sand product. I stay away from the mesh tape because it takes more to cover and sometimes sanding get into it. 1st coat.. Lay a coat of mud down, lay your tape over that and set it. Don't squeeze all the mud out. I use a flexible 8" taping knife. 2nd coat.. Use a 12 " knife and top over your 1st coat going a blade width on each side of the center. Don't try and make it perfect, just get it covered. 3rd coat.. I wet the mud down just a little bit. Top over 2nd coat going out past another 1/2 blade width or more on each side. Don't rush it. Make sure your room is warm. Any cold spots and the mud won't dry. I use a light held against the wall when sanding so you can see all the valleys and you fuck ups. Good luck
You can certainly use a quick set mud on the first coat. If you have a large area you have to mix small batches and work fast. I use a 45 minute easy sand product. I stay away from the mesh tape because it takes more to cover and sometimes sanding get into it.
1st coat..
Lay a coat of mud down, lay your tape over that and set it. Don't squeeze all the mud out. I use a flexible 8" taping knife.
2nd coat..
Use a 12 " knife and top over your 1st coat going a blade width on each side of the center.
Don't try and make it perfect, just get it covered.
3rd coat..
I wet the mud down just a little bit. Top over 2nd coat going out past another 1/2 blade width or more on each side. Don't rush it. Make sure your room is warm. Any cold spots and the mud won't dry. I use a light held against the wall when sanding so you can see all the valleys and you fuck ups. Good luck
Been having good luck with the fine mesh tape lately.
Mix up some Easy Sand 20/45/90 in your mud pan. Spackle the tape with your 6" blade for the first coat. This is the easy coat. Just get it on there and smooth it out.
2nd coat mix up another batch of Easy Sand. Grab your middle sized blade and start covering the first coat so the spackle is a few inches winder. I slap it on perpendicular to the tape line first to just get some product on their and after I have a couple feet of mud I then smooth it out in the direction of the tape. I try to put pressure on the right or left side of the blade depending on where I am at the moment. I'm anal so I try to make it as clean and straight as possible.
3rd coat I like to use the Dust Control blue lid mud from Home Depot. Same process as 2nd coat but with your biggest blade. Just put a nice smooth coat over in the same fashion and make it nice and wide so it doesn't look like there's a hump where you spackle. The lightweight spackle is more for decoration and is easy to sand.
Then go out and buy $1000 worth of Festool gear. A nice dust extractor and palm sized orbital sander with 220 grit. Sand away while eliminating 98% of the dust.
If you are doing a whole wall buy the purple lid stuff. Mix it up with a heavy drill/paddle and add a little Dawn soap to help eliminate the 'moon craters.' Dip a 1" nap roller cage into the bucket and roll the spackle onto the wall like you are painting. One guy rolls and another guy does the smoothing with the big spackle knife.
Prime everything. Touch up spackle if there are any annoying moon craters. Make sure you have a good mega light to illuminate the room. The Festool one is bright as fuck. You can do 3 coats in one day, put a fan on it, and then come the next day to sand/prime. Prime the whole ceiling even if it's not all spackled. 2nd coat the ceiling with Sherwin Williams pro mar ceiling paint. It's cheap and works well. Paint all your trim and then paint the walls. It's easier to cut a wall into trim than trim into wall.
Been having good luck with the fine mesh tape lately.
Mix up some Easy Sand 20/45/90 in your mud pan. Spackle the tape with your 6" blade for the first coat. This is the easy coat. Just get it on there and smooth it out.
2nd coat mix up another batch of Easy Sand. Grab your middle sized blade and start covering the first coat so the spackle is a few inches winder. I slap it on perpendicular to the tape line first to just get some product on their and after I have a couple feet of mud I then smooth it out in the direction of the tape. I try to put pressure on the right or left side of the blade depending on where I am at the moment. I'm anal so I try to make it as clean and straight as possible.
3rd coat I like to use the Dust Control blue lid mud from Home Depot. Same process as 2nd coat but with your biggest blade. Just put a nice smooth coat over in the same fashion and make it nice and wide so it doesn't look like there's a hump where you spackle. The lightweight spackle is more for decoration and is easy to sand.
Then go out and buy $1000 worth of Festool gear. A nice dust extractor and palm sized orbital sander with 220 grit. Sand away while eliminating 98% of the dust.
If you are doing a whole wall buy the purple lid stuff. Mix it up with a heavy drill/paddle and add a little Dawn soap to help eliminate the 'moon craters.' Dip a 1" nap roller cage into the bucket and roll the spackle onto the wall like you are painting. One guy rolls and another guy does the smoothing with the big spackle knife.
Prime everything. Touch up spackle if there are any annoying moon craters. Make sure you have a good mega light to illuminate the room. The Festool one is bright as fuck. You can do 3 coats in one day, put a fan on it, and then come the next day to sand/prime. Prime the whole ceiling even if it's not all spackled. 2nd coat the ceiling with Sherwin Williams pro mar ceiling paint. It's cheap and works well. Paint all your trim and then paint the walls. It's easier to cut a wall into trim than trim into wall.
It’s important to note that a drywall knife is two-sided. If you look down the edge of the knife, you’ll see it is slightly curved. Use the inside of the curve to spread your mud, flip the knife over to smooth the mud. That way, when you smooth the mud the ends of the knife don’t drag and make lines.
Also, premixed mud is the way to go. You’re going to spend more time mixing up your mud than actually working if you get powdered 20 minute or other quick setting mud. You can only mix little bits at a time because even the 45 minute or 90 minute mud will dry up in your pan pretty quickly. Very annoying to constantly have to scrape your pan out, and if it’s not cleaned perfectly every time you’re going to get chunks in your mud. Use the green top to do your initial layers, then use a light weight (light green) for the top layer. Some people like the purple medium weight.
You can also mix your drywall mud with a little bit of dish soap. This is an old trick to keep bubbles out of your drywall mud. Seems kind of counterintuitive but many people swear by it
When you are pointing up, i.e. doing touch up at the end, it’s good to mix a little colored chalk from your chalk line if you have one, that way it stands out from the rest of the mud when it dries and you know where to sand. If you’re doing a lot of drywall work it’s worth buying some colored chalk. It’s like 2 bucks in the tool section next to chalk lines at Lowe’s/ HD
For my tape coat, I usually cover it up right away. People have different opinions about this, but a lot of people will tell you that putting a coat right over the wet tape coat keeps the tape from bubbling out. I usually do a tape coat with a four or 6 inch knife. The next coat I will use an 8 inch knife. 10 or 12 inch knife for the next coat if necessary on joints that don’t have a taper on the end of the sheet rock board. When you do your blocking over the tape coat in corners, do one side at a time. Wait for it to dry, then do the other side, otherwise you will keep messing up the other side. If done right it should require minimal sanding.
It’s important to note that a drywall knife is two-sided. If you look down the edge of the knife, you’ll see it is slightly curved. Use the inside of the curve to spread your mud, flip the knife over to smooth the mud. That way, when you smooth the mud the ends of the knife don’t drag and make lines.
Also, premixed mud is the way to go. You’re going to spend more time mixing up your mud than actually working if you get powdered 20 minute or other quick setting mud. You can only mix little bits at a time because even the 45 minute or 90 minute mud will dry up in your pan pretty quickly. Very annoying to constantly have to scrape your pan out, and if it’s not cleaned perfectly every time you’re going to get chunks in your mud. Use the green top to do your initial layers, then use a light weight (light green) for the top layer. Some people like the purple medium weight.
You can also mix your drywall mud with a little bit of dish soap. This is an old trick to keep bubbles out of your drywall mud. Seems kind of counterintuitive but many people swear by it
When you are pointing up, i.e. doing touch up at the end, it’s good to mix a little colored chalk from your chalk line if you have one, that way it stands out from the rest of the mud when it dries and you know where to sand. If you’re doing a lot of drywall work it’s worth buying some colored chalk. It’s like 2 bucks in the tool section next to chalk lines at Lowe’s/ HD
For my tape coat, I usually cover it up right away. People have different opinions about this, but a lot of people will tell you that putting a coat right over the wet tape coat keeps the tape from bubbling out. I usually do a tape coat with a four or 6 inch knife. The next coat I will use an 8 inch knife. 10 or 12 inch knife for the next coat if necessary on joints that don’t have a taper on the end of the sheet rock board. When you do your blocking over the tape coat in corners, do one side at a time. Wait for it to dry, then do the other side, otherwise you will keep messing up the other side. If done right it should require minimal sanding.
It’s important to note that a drywall knife is two-sided.
I notice some of mine were, that was helpful.
I have a spackle blender that goes in the drill and that keep it consistent. I found that extremely helps with keeping clumps out and bubbles out. Bubbles are one thing I normally just leave to fill in afterwards since it's super easy and dries quick.
Covering up the tape is one thing I think I'm going to do. I normally wet the tape then take most of the mud out, this ends up with it not being able to slide around anymore since there isn't much mud under it anymore. Only thing I'm worried about is when the mud dries maybe it will pull the tape off the wall since it all shrinks?
Thanks!
> It’s important to note that a drywall knife is two-sided.
I notice some of mine were, that was helpful.
I have a spackle blender that goes in the drill and that keep it consistent. I found that extremely helps with keeping clumps out and bubbles out. Bubbles are one thing I normally just leave to fill in afterwards since it's super easy and dries quick.
Covering up the tape is one thing I think I'm going to do. I normally wet the tape then take most of the mud out, this ends up with it not being able to slide around anymore since there isn't much mud under it anymore. Only thing I'm worried about is when the mud dries maybe it will pull the tape off the wall since it all shrinks?
Thanks!
I am a remodeling contractor, 30 years in the trades.
There are literally hundreds of videos showing how it's done. 'Runny' spackle is retarded. Do NOT use quick-set spackle to set joint tape or corner beads.
-use all-purpose compound for the first coat. Set up fans, let them run all night.
-scrape when dry, quickly, with a 12-inch drywall knife
-recoat with 'Plus 3' spackle
-scrape when dry, sand with 100-grit MESH drywall sander
-recoat everything with 45-minute Sheetrock plaster (the powdered stuff)
-scrape and sand with 100-grit again
-blow it all dust-free with compressed air, or use a vacuum with a brush attachment
-primer with PVA
-touch up defects with 20-minute Sheetrock plaster
-sand and spot-primer
-look OK? NOW you can paint, faguette.
I am a remodeling contractor, 30 years in the trades.
There are literally hundreds of videos showing how it's done. 'Runny' spackle is retarded. Do NOT use quick-set spackle to set joint tape or corner beads.
-use all-purpose compound for the first coat. Set up fans, let them run all night.
-scrape when dry, quickly, with a 12-inch drywall knife
-recoat with 'Plus 3' spackle
-scrape when dry, sand with 100-grit MESH drywall sander
-recoat everything with 45-minute Sheetrock plaster (the powdered stuff)
-scrape and sand with 100-grit again
-blow it all dust-free with compressed air, or use a vacuum with a brush attachment
-primer with PVA
-touch up defects with 20-minute Sheetrock plaster
-sand and spot-primer
-look OK? NOW you can paint, faguette.
primer with PVA
Fascinating I'm assuming this is what allows you to have the same texture while painting of the spackle areas vs the drywall areas? At the moment no matter how flawlessly flat I make the spackle area, the drywall area simply creates a slightly different texture at the bare minimum.
The latest sherwin williams primer + paint I tried seemed to work pretty well though.
> primer with PVA
Fascinating I'm assuming this is what allows you to have the same texture while painting of the spackle areas vs the drywall areas? At the moment no matter how flawlessly flat I make the spackle area, the drywall area simply creates a slightly different texture at the bare minimum.
The latest sherwin williams primer + paint I tried seemed to work pretty well though.
The process is archaic and fucked up. Just contract it out if you can.
My only advice is this
Use 45 minute because it doesnt shrink like the faster drying ones do. So you can often get away with just mudding once (if you back butter the tape).
The lost time is not in the 30 extra minutes it takes for mud to dry. It's lost in the 2nd or 3rd coats hiding fucking tape lines. You won't be painting that day anyway, even if you use 5 minute. Trust me 45 doesn't shrink.
OK I have more to add:
Another thing, wide mounds can't be seen by the untrained eye. The eye only catches lines so stop fussing over sanding down gradual hump, unless you are in the kitchen or bathroom. (Walls with counters or cabinets being installed should be flush.)
If you sand anything, at the very minimum wipe the wall with a lightly damp sponge after. Don't get too wet.
Primer is for babies. Paints are so good now that as long as you prep the wall then you don't need to prime. The better the prep the better the paint. Even primer won't stick to dust. Plan on 2 coats of paint
Don't buy the cheapest paint. What you think you are saving in paint you'll lose in labor x2.
Texture hides most flaws but won't hide lines
Bring a 10 dollar step stool to the job site
Paint with a roller always on an extension. Can't express this enough. clean the roller 100% after done or you'll be buying another one.
Paintbrush and rollers you get what you pay for
Also, some guys in europe use a self dispensing back buttering tape gun that is so good it hurts my soul that it's not in America
Some floors get ruined if you clean them with paint thinner. Can never have too many drop cloth if you plan on doing a lot of painting. Thr brown Butcher paper is cheap from floor wholesalers or 4x the price from home depot. Plastic is my least favorite.
Use frog tape (green not yellow.) 3m masking doesn't beat frog tape
Always buy cabinets and doors pre-painted at factory no matter how good of a painter you think you are.
The process is archaic and fucked up. Just contract it out if you can.
My only advice is this
Use 45 minute because it doesnt shrink like the faster drying ones do. So you can often get away with just mudding once (if you back butter the tape).
The lost time is not in the 30 extra minutes it takes for mud to dry. It's lost in the 2nd or 3rd coats hiding fucking tape lines. You won't be painting that day anyway, even if you use 5 minute. Trust me 45 doesn't shrink.
OK I have more to add:
Another thing, wide mounds can't be seen by the untrained eye. The eye only catches lines so stop fussing over sanding down gradual hump, unless you are in the kitchen or bathroom. (Walls with counters or cabinets being installed should be flush.)
If you sand anything, at the very minimum wipe the wall with a lightly damp sponge after. Don't get too wet.
Primer is for babies. Paints are so good now that as long as you prep the wall then you don't need to prime. The better the prep the better the paint. Even primer won't stick to dust. Plan on 2 coats of paint
Don't buy the cheapest paint. What you think you are saving in paint you'll lose in labor x2.
Texture hides most flaws but won't hide lines
Bring a 10 dollar step stool to the job site
Paint with a roller always on an extension. Can't express this enough. clean the roller 100% after done or you'll be buying another one.
Paintbrush and rollers you get what you pay for
Also, some guys in europe use a self dispensing back buttering tape gun that is so good it hurts my soul that it's not in America
Some floors get ruined if you clean them with paint thinner. Can never have too many drop cloth if you plan on doing a lot of painting. Thr brown Butcher paper is cheap from floor wholesalers or 4x the price from home depot. Plastic is my least favorite.
Use frog tape (green not yellow.) 3m masking doesn't beat frog tape
Always buy cabinets and doors pre-painted at factory no matter how good of a painter you think you are.
Another thing, wide mounds can't be seen by the untrained eye. The eye only catches lines so stop fussing over sanding down gradual hump, unless you are in the kitchen or bathroom.
Not always true. In my hallway some clown did this shit and because of how the house was designed the natural light in the hallway comes in from the bathroom window and shines right along the hallway wall highlighting every hump, bump, and wave in their shitty job. One day I'm gonna have to spend a weekend fixing that shitty wall because it drives me crazy every time I look at it.
When I hire a drywall guy I check the work with a bright flashlight held against the wall and shine it in all directions. If there are big shadows we have a problem. It's also a good way to check the work of a tile guy and a floor guy (uneven floor tile is the worst).
> Another thing, wide mounds can't be seen by the untrained eye. The eye only catches lines so stop fussing over sanding down gradual hump, unless you are in the kitchen or bathroom.
Not always true. In my hallway some clown did this shit and because of how the house was designed the natural light in the hallway comes in from the bathroom window and shines right along the hallway wall highlighting every hump, bump, and wave in their shitty job. One day I'm gonna have to spend a weekend fixing that shitty wall because it drives me crazy every time I look at it.
When I hire a drywall guy I check the work with a bright flashlight held against the wall and shine it in all directions. If there are big shadows we have a problem. It's also a good way to check the work of a tile guy and a floor guy (uneven floor tile is the worst).
Did they texture? What kind of texture did they use on the wall?
Did they texture? What kind of texture did they use on the wall?
They used knockdown, but the shadows are way bigger than the texture.
They used knockdown, but the shadows are way bigger than the texture.
why not use 5 or 15 minute?
why not use 5 or 15 minute?
I was thinking about it, I just got some 5 minute and 20 minute to try. Thanks. One thing I was wondering if different layers get exposed, 5 minute vs all purpose, with they sand at the same rate? If not I won't properly be able to sand anymore (which is actually why I moved to a fill heavy approach - watered vs unwatered don't sand at the same rate).
I was thinking about it, I just got some 5 minute and 20 minute to try. Thanks. One thing I was wondering if different layers get exposed, 5 minute vs all purpose, with they sand at the same rate? If not I won't properly be able to sand anymore (which is actually why I moved to a fill heavy approach - watered vs unwatered don't sand at the same rate).
i feel the white stuff is the same as all purpose for softness, the grey is a different beast.
i feel the white stuff is the same as all purpose for softness, the grey is a different beast.
I believe the quicker the set up time the more plaster of Paris there is; therefore, the quicker 5 is the hardest to sand. The 90min or the pre-mix is a lot softer and easier to sand.
Do you use corner tools or do you wing it with straight knives?
I believe the quicker the set up time the more plaster of Paris there is; therefore, the quicker 5 is the hardest to sand. The 90min or the pre-mix is a lot softer and easier to sand.
Do you use corner tools or do you wing it with straight knives?
I have a corner tool and I'd like to use it but every time I do, I end up correcting and expanding out with the regular blade enough times that it doesn't seem I gained anything. I think the corner tool would be great and work good, if I committed to not expanding outwards afterwards. Which would mean the spackle from the corner might be only 4".
If I did that I could do corners in two runs and the time saving would be worth it.
I'm going to have a ton of corner work to do because I'm going to be lowering the whole ceiling two inches (the ceiling is actually straight up concrete, zero way to wire up lights).
I have a corner tool and I'd like to use it but every time I do, I end up correcting and expanding out with the regular blade enough times that it doesn't seem I gained anything. I think the corner tool would be great and work good, if I committed to not expanding outwards afterwards. Which would mean the spackle from the corner might be only 4".
If I did that I could do corners in two runs and the time saving would be worth it.
I'm going to have a ton of corner work to do because I'm going to be lowering the whole ceiling two inches (the ceiling is actually straight up concrete, zero way to wire up lights).
If you think you can work that fast go for it. The shit will set up in your pan before you get it all out. If you're doing a small patch, not a problem.
If you think you can work that fast go for it. The shit will set up in your pan before you get it all out.
If you're doing a small patch, not a problem.
Was also the reason I didn't jump on using the 5 / 20 minute I've got at the moment. Currently the rate I put the spackle up, vs the amount I have to do, by the time I'm done with the last part the first part is dried now (the up / down / left / right ravine / patch up phase). So the stuff in the pan would have dried before getting it put up.
I've got a spackle mixer on a drill though to keep it fresh with water and consistent / bubbleless though.
Was also the reason I didn't jump on using the 5 / 20 minute I've got at the moment. Currently the rate I put the spackle up, vs the amount I have to do, by the time I'm done with the last part the first part is dried now (the up / down / left / right ravine / patch up phase). So the stuff in the pan would have dried before getting it put up.
I've got a spackle mixer on a drill though to keep it fresh with water and consistent / bubbleless though.
How many sheets of drywall are you doing? Walls ans ceilings? It sounds like you may want to find a taper. At least get a bid to see if it's in your budget. A good taper is cheaper than you might think and will get the job done in a few days. It'd be well worth it.
How many sheets of drywall are you doing? Walls ans ceilings? It sounds like you may want to find a taper. At least get a bid to see if it's in your budget. A good taper is cheaper than you might think and will get the job done in a few days. It'd be well worth it.
the working time is 5 minutes, it doesn't set up (unable to clean up) for a long time after that. if you are doing something that isn't precise that uses a lot you can do a pan pretty quickly.
the working time is 5 minutes, it doesn't set up (unable to clean up) for a long time after that. if you are doing something that isn't precise that uses a lot you can do a pan pretty quickly.
NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO
My process is to contract it out It’s a shitty hard job that will look like shit unless you know what your doing and the people that do it for a living work for peanuts hire a professional and do something more productive with your time
My process is to contract it out
It’s a shitty hard job that will look like shit unless you know what your doing and the people that do it for a living work for peanuts hire a professional and do something more productive with your time
Not for OP, but for some people: "Professional" doesn't mean the illegal in the Home Depot parking lot that's done a lot of drywall before. Professional means someone's work you can go check out before hiring them.
Not for OP, but for some people: "Professional" doesn't mean the illegal in the Home Depot parking lot that's done a lot of drywall before. Professional means someone's work you can go check out before hiring them.
Yep 👍
Yep 👍
I agree ... It took me a long time to get to where I'm at and I still suck at it. I'm a painter, not a taper.
I agree ... It took me a long time to get to where I'm at and I still suck at it. I'm a painter, not a taper.
I agree. For this process though I want to do the whole thing. It's a life experience thing mostly. For the sake of getting another trade / skill, and I have the unique opportunity to do it. In the future or maybe half way through this I may just hire a single helper and teach them if needed, pay at a day rate.
I agree. For this process though I want to do the whole thing. It's a life experience thing mostly. For the sake of getting another trade / skill, and I have the unique opportunity to do it. In the future or maybe half way through this I may just hire a single helper and teach them if needed, pay at a day rate.
I just slather that shit on there and sand it down. Patches look like shit no matter what you do.
I just slather that shit on there and sand it down. Patches look like shit no matter what you do.
LOL
LOL
Nobody is mentioning checking the drywall alignment first. I fucking hate when illegals were used to drywall and the fucking joints aren't flush. Those fuckers just spackle over it and throw some knockdown on it hoping you won't see it, but it's still noticeable as fuck and looks like absolute shit.
Get a bright flashlight and hold it against the wall and shine that fucker in all directions. If there are shadows anywhere you done fucked up. Fix it before you mud.
Nobody is mentioning checking the drywall alignment first. I fucking hate when illegals were used to drywall and the fucking joints aren't flush. Those fuckers just spackle over it and throw some knockdown on it hoping you won't see it, but it's still noticeable as fuck and looks like absolute shit.
Get a bright flashlight and hold it against the wall and shine that fucker in all directions. If there are shadows anywhere you done fucked up. Fix it before you mud.
Ya I just got a blade light for putting up against the wall. Works great for seeing paint imperfections too.
Knockdown looks terrible. I make sure both ends land on the same stud so they should be flush, but I had one corner that wasn't. At the moment I use a fill heavy approach so I don't have to worry about sanding down to the protruding corner.
Thanks!
Ya I just got a blade light for putting up against the wall. Works great for seeing paint imperfections too.
Knockdown looks terrible. I make sure both ends land on the same stud so they should be flush, but I had one corner that wasn't. At the moment I use a fill heavy approach so I don't have to worry about sanding down to the protruding corner.
Thanks!
Some times when I did jobs the spackle / compound would dry faster then previous jobs, much faster. The drying process is not just a process of water leaving the mixture, its also a chemical thermobaric process. Or whatever its called when a reaction happens which produces heat. This process of hardening was happening faster at job sites we used water from on site water wells. So... what was different? The water was higher in Iron! And thats the key. If you add some iron rich water you will not need to wait as long to get it to dry and for you to do yiur next step. The con? You have less time to work the compound so either make smaller batches or work quickly or both if you have higher amounts of iron!
Some times when I did jobs the spackle / compound would dry faster then previous jobs, much faster. The drying process is not just a process of water leaving the mixture, its also a chemical thermobaric process. Or whatever its called when a reaction happens which produces heat. This process of hardening was happening faster at job sites we used water from on site water wells. So... what was different? The water was higher in Iron! And thats the key. If you add some iron rich water you will not need to wait as long to get it to dry and for you to do yiur next step. The con? You have less time to work the compound so either make smaller batches or work quickly or both if you have higher amounts of iron!
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