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Assume there is a universal goal that is better sought than any known to human. The duty to this universal good would be more important than a person's duty to himself or his species or his planet. By what means should a human try to learn what this universal good is?

edit: just hashing things out here:

By the laws of nature one should take whatever action gives the highest chance to pass on one's genes. This leads to a direct ethical duty to one's species. So to take that one step further one has a duty to uphold the stability of the universe, right? But that's shortsighted too: it assumes that replicating one's genes actually is the ethically correct thing to do. So a search for transcendent ethics may start at a higher* level than life. It may involve duties beyond one's own universe.

But how can an entity have a duty beyond what that entity is able to influence? That's a red herring. Whatever my actual ethical duty it's best to understand that duty from the highest* possible perspective. Even if I have no higher duty than is in regard to those things I can influence, knowing what that duty is requires a higher* level of understanding.

*as in high level vs low level programming, where assembly is low level code and java is high level code

Assume there is a universal goal that is better sought than any known to human. The duty to this universal good would be more important than a person's duty to himself or his species or his planet. By what means should a human try to learn what this universal good is? edit: just hashing things out here: By the laws of nature one should take whatever action gives the highest chance to pass on one's genes. This leads to a direct ethical duty to one's species. So to take that one step further one has a duty to uphold the stability of the universe, right? But that's shortsighted too: it assumes that replicating one's genes actually is the ethically correct thing to do. So a search for transcendent ethics may start at a higher* level than life. It may involve duties beyond one's own universe. But how can an entity have a duty beyond what that entity is able to influence? That's a red herring. Whatever my actual ethical duty it's best to understand that duty from the highest* possible perspective. Even if I have no higher duty than is in regard to those things I can influence, knowing what that duty is requires a higher* level of understanding. *as in high level vs low level programming, where assembly is low level code and java is high level code

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[–] • 0 pt

So what you're saying is he's not visible distinguishable from my local Catholic priest. Does that work like Santa's helpers? How can you say he's not hiding on one hand and that there's no way to recognize him on the other?

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

So to jump to the end argument.

If you wanted truth you'd be asking questions, not what ever it is you are doing.

People spend their lives in search of truth, it requires that you have an open mind and are able to value other peoples experiences.

You don't want truth however vaguely defined, you want to find a way to have your own opinions fed back to you so you can look smart without having to do any actual work or give anything up.

We have Truth, it's Jesus Christ. A study of the life of Padre Pio really can help you find him.

It cost Padre Pio everything, it will cost you everything. It has cost me a great deal.

Truth isn't cheap, you'll find it when you actually listen to the people who answer your questions.

[–] • 0 pt (edited )

What I'm doing? I'll tell you what I'm doing: I'm searching for transcendent meaning. But your immediate uncritical answer of "the Christian God" leaves the many, many objections to belief in such unanswered. That's why I started my question with "common religions aside". A Shintoist would tell me about the hopes of my ancestors. A Buddhist would tell me about how the universe is giving me a chance to reach a higher plane. An ancient Greek would chastise me for not following the dictates of the Gods. A native American would tell me my problem is I haven't danced to the sun, the moon, or the animal spirits.

Forgive me if I seem unwilling to listen, but your answer is too immediate, too trite, too pat. At the end of my search, if I ever reach it, there may indeed be the Christian God. But for now I'm forced to search beyond religion. There must be a set of ethics that can be followed by an entity that never heard of any religions humans follow. That set of ethics is what I'm looking for.

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

Well, I'd argue about the trite part. I'll agree to the rest.

All the common religions are where people usually find transcendence and where real and physical proofe i.e. miracles are found. Miracles that you can search and eye witnesses you can talk to and/or at least read their testimonies.

So what you said in your statement of, "Common religions aside..." you were saying, apart from where most people find transcendence, where can I get transcendence?

Go where most people go.

If you want absolute proof that you are dealing with the divine, the Catholic church has many astounding and bewildering miracles to consider, well researched and documented. Also many saints that you can read about that have reached transcendence.

I've been down many roads my friend and I have gotten some answers from other places only to fi d them all here in the Catholic church.

Yes, and many scary things as well.

You are right, everybody makes their claims. If you're really searching for truth no matter what it costs you, then you'll be able to tell which ones are full of it and which ones are telling the truth.

Good luck.

P.S. I wasn't trite, asshole maybe, but never trite.

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

As a direct reply, yes. The priest is a stand in for Christ. So you can have a horrible priest who does all of the horrible things - and the sacraments are still valid. Christ does the work, not the priest.

However God is there fully all on his own.

Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice and listen to me."

Are you his sheep?

Countless people have died for the faith. Are they all fools or just maybe they see something that you can't. It's something ti think about.

As an addendum: I am being very direct and I know that can come through as rude, but subtlety doesn't work well. I will continue to pray for you, and I do wish you the best.