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So @AOU and I have been talking and he just came up with an idea. We have been discussing it for a few minutes today and we thought we would share it with you guys and get your input. 1. A page where you can see a list of the downvotes on your posts and another for comments (Level 6 and up) 2. A page where you can see a list of all downvotes that have been cast on the site (Red Barons and up) So let us know what you think.

So and I have been talking and he just came up with an idea. We have been discussing it for a few minutes today and we thought we would share it with you guys and get your input.

  1. A page where you can see a list of the downvotes on your posts and another for comments (Level 6 and up)

  2. A page where you can see a list of all downvotes that have been cast on the site (Red Barons and up)

So let us know what you think.

Idea 1 & 2 are good
Idea 1 & 2 are bad
Idea 1 is good & idea 2 is bad
Idea 1 is bad & idea 2 is good
Fuck You!

(post is archived)

[–] • 12 pts (edited )

I feel there is already enough stigma (maybe too much) to using the downvote button. Is there a problem this will solve? I'm not seeing a problem. It's already transparent enough to the user imo.

[–] • 7 pts

Maybe but it doesn’t allow anymore transparency than currently exists it just makes it easier to look at. Thoughts?

[+] [deleted] • 2 pts
[–] • 2 pts

The list for the user, yes, just allows an easier format and as AOU pointed out, it can easily let you look at older posts/comments that people might be using to downvote you.

I'm not sure allowing everyone to see other's downvotes is good/bad, idk.

[–] • 2 pts

I like the first idea best myself.

[–] • 4 pts

Is there a problem this will solve? I'm not seeing a problem. It's already transparent enough to the user imo.

There have been some smartasses who thought that using throwaway accounts to game votes from old posts/comments would pass without being noticed.

These new features would list by the most recent to the oldest downvote.

[–] • 3 pts

I always seem to underestimate how petty and pathetic some people can be.

[–] • 1 pt

Shekels are their main motive.

[–] • 4 pts

Admittedly, I'm aloof so perhaps I don't see as much as others however, I don't think that down voting is so much stigmatized here as it is personalized. Casting a down vote here is akin throwing a punch in person. If I hit that button I should first be able to articulate a counter argument or at a minimum point to a flaw in your reasoning. Short of that I had better suck up my resentment for your having the audacity to post something I disagree with or at least admit to myself that I'm so petty that I can't allow you to respond.

[–] • 2 pts (edited )

Personalized is a good way to look at it. Usually I just ignore rather than downvote. There is a user or two that I feel deserve downvotes on a regular basis, not because I disagree, but one is prone to offtopic rants, and the other is a larping idiot. In both cases. I'm not sure replying and downvoting works either. I could say "stay on topic", or "quit larping, faggot", idk.

I choose to look the other way instead of downvoting. Maybe that is good, the system is working as intended? I'm not so sure.

[–] • 7 pts

Do I understand it correctly that one could see any downvotes of a specific user with sufficient clearance?

This would make profiling of a user very easy.

[–] • 8 pts

Well currently(and it’s been this way for almost 2 years) users over level 6 can see who uses downvoted, now I understand this is a foreign concept for a lot of users of platforms like this. The idea behind it is to discourage targeted downvoting so if someone wants to mass downvote a user they are accountable for it. We thought when we made it that way it would discourage retaliatory downvotes, and so far it has really worked. Always open to thoughts on the subject though.

[–] [deleted] • 4 pts (edited )

Yes, every one can see your downvotes. If you click "voting details" or "details" the usernames of anyone that downvoted is listed.

[–] • 3 pts

Do I understand it correctly

Not quite.

Idea #1 will let you see a list of who downvoted your posts/comments, sorted by the most recent to the oldest downvote.

Idea #2 will let you see a list of all the post/comment downvotes casted on Poal, sorted by the most recent to the oldest downvote.

Also, Poal has an algorithm that cancels targeted downvotes and brigading, but for the sake of transparency we would think users deserve to know if they are getting brigaded, especially since downvotes are already public for level 6+ poalrs (post/comment details).

[–] [deleted] • 4 pts

Full transparency for red barons

[–] • 4 pts

Well let’s see what everyone thinks. I think this could make for a good conversation.

[–] • 4 pts

Transparency for all or transparency for none. Having to reach a 'level' first is gay and stupid.

[–] • 2 pts

That system is in place because we originally gave those kinds of privileges to brand new users. People found ways to use that to abuse the system so having an account need to be semi established helps prevent that kind of abuse.

[–] • 1 pt

You can't abuse transparency though.

[–] • 2 pts

As it turns out you can, I didn't think you could either until I started a site like this. If you want more information on that I'd be happy to provide it but I'd rather do it through PM than publicly.

[–] [deleted] • 3 pts

Why don't you just remove the downvote button? If you don't want downvotes, just remove the button.

[–] • 8 pts

I think there should be more buttons, like some right/left buttons.

[–] [deleted] • 7 pts

I have previously advocated a "mark as nigger" flag. Get too many and you win a flair!

[–] • 4 pts

I've tried sites with no downvote and they're really annoying. Rather than being able to downvote bad posts, you're relegated to passive-aggressively ignoring them.

[–] [deleted] • 3 pts

You just described Poal then.

From the user guide: https://poal.co/userguide

It says:

At Poal, we believe the down vote is not a "I disagree button".

We'd rather engage in a counter argument with the post/comment we disagree with, and use down votes for spam (you can report to admins) and off topic trolls.

Also note that your downvotes are public here, which isn't such a big deal. The point I've been trying to make is that if they don't want downvotes they should just remove the button rather than act butthurt about downvotes or have some algorithm that resets your account if you do it too much (which they have).

[–] • 2 pts

I guess that makes sense. You can only crack down on downvotes so much before there's no point in having them at all.

[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

we believe the down vote is not a "I disagree button".

Believe it as hard as you want, won't make it become true.

[–] • 0 pt

TBH A quiet downvote is also a passive-aggressive move.

[–] • 3 pts

That is a complicated answer if you'd like I can do a write up on it later this evening.

[–] [deleted] • 3 pts

I don't want a write up. I already know the answer myself.

If you don't want downvotes, just disable the downvote button in the code.

[–] • 5 pts

Its not that I don't want downvotes, I want people who use them to be accountable.

[–] • 1 pt

Downvotes are necessary to bury spam.

[–] [deleted] • 1 pt

Then they can have a "mark as spam" button.

[–] • 0 pt

But that button should also reduce post visibility.

If Poal scales up to 10000 users, it would become harder to moderate spam.

[–] • 0 pt

That feature already exists but to avoid abuse and false reports it’s only available to Red Barons (level 30+).

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

kiwifarms does it best. Plenty of pozrate and negrate buttons.

[–] • 2 pts

I voted for one of the 4 real options, but now I feel obligated to say Fuck You.

[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

Fuck You is such a great option. You should officially change your vote!

[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

I still believe votes should be anonymous.

[–] • 2 pts

That is fine, and I agree upvotes should be.

[–] [deleted] • 4 pts

When Gab had down voting, it would cost you one karma point to downvote someone and I believe you only were allowed 10 downvotes per hour. Having a cost to downvoting makes people more responsible with the downvote button.

[–] • 2 pts

I'm honestly not against this idea. I've argued against it in the past but its not the worst idea.

[–] • 0 pt

Gab had downvoting?

So were they once a news aggregator or always a microblog platform?

[–] • 1 pt

I wouldn't mind public upvotes.

Would make vote farming hard.

(I am cool with public downvotes too of course)

[–] • 1 pt

Public upvotes I spent A LOT of time thinking about early on in the site they were public for about a day or so but I decided I didn't want to discourage people from upvoting unpopular ideas.

[–] • 2 pts

One possible reason for not wanting to publish downvotes: the pricks at reddit use it to profile IP addresses, and therefore peoples thoughts.

If proceeding put that data behind an open source captcha (not google) or maybe cgibin script to throw spiders bots into loops. Anything proprietary can and will be data harvested.

[–] • 2 pts

Anytime we have seen a bot trying to scrape data we have put a stop too it. We do not sell data we will never sell data. We will not have data from poal used for anything period(other than site operations and that will always be transparent).

That being said downvotes are currently public if your account reaches level 6 it has been for almost 2 years and not one time has it caused a real problem. The only time it caused a small problem was when we first made them public for those accounts. This resulted in a few people getting mad and leaving which I understood at the time.

As I've said many many times, the downvote button isn't an I disagree button, that is what the post comment button is for. I would hope people would post comments to tell me why they disagree with me I don't know how I would learn more if they didn't.

[–] • 2 pts

I hope you forgive me for this.

I just clicked your profile and clicked "posts."

In short order I learned you enjoy R-Rated Anime, so much so that you posted a link for others to see... 2 years ago.

I'm just a person. Imagine what a bot can pull.

[–] • 1 pt

What now? I apparently forgot that post. lol 2 years ago I did drunk post from time to time. I wasn't as much of a public figure at the time.

[–] • 2 pts

I like them both. I'd rather sites that allows downvotes forced you to leave a comment if you downvoted. I think it is too easy to hide behind a downvote and stifle speech that way.

[–] • 0 pt

Could be usable tbh. But the problem I have with "non-dv" is that if I disagree with a user about a petty little thing I don't want to spam the discussion with offtopic commentary. Mandatory comments would still have that effect, spamming the discussion with potential offtopic.

[–] • 0 pt

We shouldn't be downvoting if it is something petty. Under my idea, the downvote is probationary. So if a reply isn't made in X amount of time, it goes away as if it never happened. More than anything, this will allow the site admins to see who's a downvote abuser and tag them accordingly with a banner next to their name similar to the suspicious behavior.

[–] [deleted] • 2 pts

Idea 2 is bad because it only takes one red barron writing a script and popping up a website to give everyone access to site-wide downvote information.

[–] • 1 pt

And you think that script would pass under the radar? 😉

[–] [deleted] • 0 pt

I know from experience, it would. Very tricky to block selenium scripts :p

[–] • 1 pt

Maybe show pictures of malformed penises when pressing DV?

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