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222

This poll is now closed.

Yes
57 % (21 votes)
No
43 % (16 votes)

(post is archived)

[–] 2 pts

I understand the concept of "might is right". My argument is that if everyone was armed, the risk of flexing that might outweighs any benefits.

In this context the current situation is: everyone is armed. They live in villages/communities or even cities, with free trade between everyone. Basically, very similar to how it is now, minus the taxes and welfare. I concede that if the situation was different: IE there was a famine, or some new viral outbreak or plague and everyone was scrambling for limited food or medical supplies; then yes, you'd be very right: you'd have to fight for survival. But that would happen regardless of government system.

And, in the absence of all that, there'd be simply no justification to fight each other.


Onto your point about slaves, it only stopped because of capitalism and everything that came with it (including industrialisation):

It's only recently in history that we've realised that willing individuals are much more efficient and productive (even after wage costs) than slaves. Also, thanks to industrialisation, machines designed by willing engineers are much better than slaves. Even if you managed to rather a group of people, convince them to fight for your cause, and enslaved a bunch of other people, what would you do with them? Force them to tend to your crops? You could just pay the wages you would need to pay for security guards directly to a modern farmer, and you'd get much more food than you would otherwise. There just isn't enough value in human labour to justify the expense.

Maybe you could simply extort them (weaker people), but you can only do that to a point before they'd revolt, and it'd only be possible if they were disarmed and weak in the first place. Guns are a force equaliser. Very different from suits of armour, swords and horses.


tl;dr:

The value in human labour (slavery) isn't there to justify the risk of fighting. That's what's different between the past thousands of years, and now.

[–] [deleted] 0 pt (edited )

Things as they are now, the existing order, heavily relies on laws to exist, you remove laws what prevents me from looting your place etc? Nothing but force

Then given the above, if there are no laws, the biggest pack of wolves prevails, that's reality, the rest is literature and wishful thinking

And yes everyone is armed and organized... Starting with the biggest pack of wolves...

>And, in the absence of all that, there'd be simply no justification to fight each other.

In the absence of all what? In the absence of total collapse of rule of law? As in people fighting over boxes of painkillers due to supply shortages all over the place because a contract is no longer backed by anything but promises?

...

You don't seem to realize how much of this world relies on laws to exist

Slavery didn't stop with capitalism, it's still ongoing, especially in places where anarchy prevails

[–] 1 pt

Again, why would you want to loot my place? You aren't going to anything in there that's valuable enough that it's worth getting shot for. I don't have any gold, drugs are cheap because anyone can make them when there are no laws to prevent you from doing so. There's no reason to come after me because I have nothing that's worth fighting for, including my use as a slave.

Slavery stops anywhere where capitalism is allowed and the economic output of free people is worth more than those of slaves, simply because it's not financially feasible.

>Again, why would you want to loot my place?

Because I need it in order to survive? Because since you removed all laws commerce has been rendered impracticable as a result and nobody wants to ship anything anymore to this lawless land?

>You aren't going to anything in there that's valuable enough that it's worth getting shot for.

Maybe a bit of meat is all I'm looking for right now? Human flesh would do?

>drugs are cheap because anyone can make

I need a lab and equipement for that... And not any random product on top of that. Also, internet connection bare minimum because I'm not a chemist...

>There's no reason to come after me because I have nothing that's worth fighting for, including my use as a slave.

That's up to me to decide that, not you. Again, I'm starving and you look healthy enough...

>Slavery stops anywhere where capitalism is allowed and the economic output of free people is worth more than those of slaves, simply because it's not financially feasible.

Who said we need slave labor? We need the land under your feet, wand what's under it, not your ass. However, your daughters and wife look good enough for a sex slave.

;..

You have no idea how low humans can go

And if you think it's just a matter of skin color I have bad news for you; You're an idiot if you trust a guy just because he's white

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315%E2%80%931317

>The Great Famine started with bad weather in spring 1315. Crop failures lasted through 1316 until the summer harvest in 1317, and Europe did not fully recover until 1322. The period was marked by extreme levels of crime, disease, mass death, and even cannibalism and infanticide. The crisis had consequences for the Church, state, European society, and for future calamities to follow in the 14th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Scope_and_duration

>Evidence of widespread cannibalism was documented during the Holodomor.[25][48]

>Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was "not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you." The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did.[49]

>The Soviet regime printed posters declaring: "To eat your own children is a barbarian act."[50]:225 More than 2,500 people were convicted of cannibalism during the Holodomor.[51]

I tell you what, you're an intellectual, and that's not the problem

The problem is that you're only an intellectual, you miss the gap beteen theory and practice

https://pics.me.me/the-society-that-separates-its-scholars-from-its-warriors-will-7394824.png