Poal users of Poal, do you support Hong Kong?

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Absofuckinglutely.

For context, I lived in Shanghai for several years, so I know a few things about Chinese culture.

The protests are follow-ons to the 2014 Umbrella Movement, which were possibly the politest protests in history, in competition only with the Tea Party rallies here in 2009. The '14 protests were over a different encroachment of Beijing power, but they're related. The protesters are basically asking Beijing to honor the handover agreement from the handover of HK in 1997, but that's not on the agenda for Beijing.

The funny part, in a sad way, is that Beijing (and really, Xi Jinping, who is a power-loving monster) created a no-win situation for themselves. If they had not overreached, none of this would be happening. Now that it is happening, there is no way out that won't weaken their legitimacy to rule, in the eyes of the Chinese people.

If they repeat Tiananmen (which, believe it or not, was much more of a fuckup than a planned slaughter, but that's complicated and I don't want to go into it now), they have several problems. First, they cannot memory hole it the way they have done to Tiananmen. Cell phone videos make that impossible. Second, having the People's Liberation Army slaughter Chinese people a second time will break the army, though exactly how is not clear. The PLA is the major reason that China refers to Tiananmen as "an incident" rather than as the suppression of a counter-revolution. The PLA considered it a blot on their honor, and the students to be innocent, and threatened public protests if the official histories blamed the students.

But if they accede to the protesters, they are admitting to being wrong, which won't be as serious a blow to their legitimacy, but will still erode it and cause problems and, eventually, could lead to their downfall. (I'm horribly oversimplifying, but it's Chinese culture; it is almost impossible not to oversimplify.)

No, we should not send troops. But yes, we should absolutely give moral support, and refuge to any Hong Kongers who flee whatever happens. The fact that Pelosi(!) is supporting the protesters blows my mind, and makes me respect her a little. I guess even mummified harridans can get something right once in a while.

Absofuckinglutely. For context, I lived in Shanghai for several years, so I know a few things about Chinese culture. The protests are follow-ons to the 2014 Umbrella Movement, which were possibly the politest protests in history, in competition only with the Tea Party rallies here in 2009. The '14 protests were over a different encroachment of Beijing power, but they're related. The protesters are basically asking Beijing to honor the handover agreement from the handover of HK in 1997, but that's not on the agenda for Beijing. The funny part, in a sad way, is that Beijing (and really, Xi Jinping, who is a power-loving monster) created a no-win situation for themselves. If they had not overreached, none of this would be happening. Now that it is happening, there is no way out that won't weaken their legitimacy to rule, in the eyes of the Chinese people. If they repeat Tiananmen (which, believe it or not, was much more of a fuckup than a planned slaughter, but that's complicated and I don't want to go into it now), they have several problems. First, they *cannot* memory hole it the way they have done to Tiananmen. Cell phone videos make that impossible. Second, having the People's Liberation Army slaughter Chinese people a second time will break the army, though exactly how is not clear. The PLA is *the* major reason that China refers to Tiananmen as "an incident" rather than as the suppression of a counter-revolution. The PLA considered it a blot on their honor, and the students to be innocent, and threatened public protests if the official histories blamed the students. But if they accede to the protesters, they are admitting to being wrong, which won't be as serious a blow to their legitimacy, but will still erode it and cause problems and, eventually, could lead to their downfall. (I'm horribly oversimplifying, but it's Chinese culture; it is almost impossible not to oversimplify.) No, we should not send troops. But yes, we should absolutely give moral support, and refuge to any Hong Kongers who flee whatever happens. The fact that Pelosi(!) is supporting the protesters blows my mind, and makes me respect her a little. I guess even mummified harridans can get something right once in a while.

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