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150

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[–] 0 pt (edited )

Listen, mister "holier than thou"

If people like you are free to practice christianity to this day, it's precisely because christian men took arms to defend their freedom and the christian faith to begin with

And at the same time, here you are pointing the finger at them (charles martel to name just him) while you enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice every single day

I find that VERY hypocritical on your part to say the least

If the west was made entirely of types like you where do you think christian would be today? In the fucking gulag, that's where

>"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

This will be my last reply.

I've never made a claim that I wasn't consistent with here, so I am not a hypocrite, unless you mean I'm hypocritical for having the gall to exist after those events, and say they did wrong, but since the future follows from the past, doesn't that just mean we are unable to criticize past events at all without being hypocritical? I can do nothing about the actions of people in the past.

Is it hypocritical to criticize Adam for disobeying God and bringing the curse of original sin to the Earth? Is it wrong to criticize Cain for slaying his brother out of spite? Is it wrong to criticize the Pharaoh for placing the Hebrews in bondage? I'd likely not be here if none of those events occurred, either.

That oft-used and cherry-picked quote that you are using at the end, is never used in full where Christ elaborates the meaning, I posted up the full context, and and other references to "the sword", and I broke down what was being said here, that Jesus was talking about dividing up the Jewish community with his message, his words are "the sword" he is referring to.

And you if you okay with that sort of resistance, then we are in agreement, that is the way to rebel that I am advocating for here. I said to preach, I said to worship, and pray, make your voice heard that way. I consider that an attack and clearly so did the people in Jesus's time, Jesus himself considered it a way of attacking, he did not bring peace, he brought division, the whole community had turned on itself, culminating in the death of the messiah at the hands of his own people, who he had come to save.

In this case he is speaking in metaphors, and we know this because he goes on to explain exactly that the metaphor actually means, but people like you see the real message as being inconvenient, so you cut him off, and intentionally mislead people as to what he was saying.

He did comes like a lion, he was a king and he was ferocious, but he never killed anyone, never even wounded anyone, he would not even permit someone to be executed under his direction, he did not resist his arrest, and took his torture and humiliation with patience and dignity, then he forgave the ones who did it to him, even as they were putting him to death. He even submitted to tyrannical authority, paying taxes and telling the slaves to obey their masters in order to get into Heaven, and to his people he said to submit to offence and indignity, while rewarding the perpetrators with nothing but goodness and compliance in return. The messiah's direct words were to take a blow on one cheek and turn the other to them so that they may strike it also, to give over not only the robe they ask for, but also your sandals, and he stayed true to his own teaching to the end, where he provided the ultimate example of the most extreme ends of this lesson.

It was this that made their gospel so powerful, they they would endure violence, without returning it, and never deviating from their spiritual path, if they were wiped out, that would be alright, as it would be the endtimes, and all who died in flesh would be saved from the true death of sin. They weren't wiped out, and their teachings led them to spread the holy word to the four corners of the Earth, it was God's will for this to happen. God uses the faithful and sinful in his plan, he uses the ones who reject him just as he uses those who rejoice in him, mankind's acts of disobedience are also a part of his plan, remember that.

However great you suffering on Earth is, your reward in Heaven are multiplied tenfold, there is no downside to obedience, nothing can happen during a short life in the fallen world that would make it worthwhile to forsake the eternal life offered to the obedience to Christ.

[–] 0 pt (edited )

It is hypocritical to spit on the memory of charles martel from a christian standpoint

You wouldn't exist without him, the west would be islamic just like the rest of north africa which used to be christian

Needless to mention that christianity would be long gone

...

Death in a fight, even more so in a fight for survival, is an eventuality, on both sides

It's just a fact of life

When jesus physically attacked (because he did) the money changers, one of them could have died, accidentally for instance, just by falling on the ground and bumping his head too hard

https://www.learnreligions.com/jesus-clears-the-temple-bible-story-700066

Jesus was so filled with anger at the desecration of the holy place that he took some cords and wove them into a small whip. He ran about, knocking over the tables of the money changers, spilling coins on the ground. He drove the exchangers out of the area, along with the men selling pigeons and cattle. He also prevented people from using the court as a shortcut.

It went quite physical, that's one man against a crowd here. Imagine pulling that sort of stunt in a middle eastern outdoor market... Imagine the mess, imagine how merchants are going to react. It is going to be violent, it is going to be a full blown street brawl. And people during jesus days, weren't softer and more tolerant or less violent than they are today.

Let that sink in

Jesus wasn't exactly a peaceful hippie cuck, obviously

Why would Jesus say "love thy enemy", when before he was showing hatred for those who were changing money on the temple steps? Reminder that Jesus is God, he can do whatever he wants, we do as he says, not as he does. And he says to bear injury without grudges, and we shall do so. You line about "murder", if you can get the authority from the earthly representatives of God's will to approve of violent resistance, it might be enough to justify the use of violence, but nothing short of that may convince me.

He was alright with mercantile practices being done elsewhere, just not on the steps of the temple of the Jews, due to it being a "holy place", as it was the house of God, his father. No Christian would consider a Jewish temple to be a "holy place" today, anyway.

As for religious houses engaging in business, last I checked, church collection baskets and bake sales are not a controversial thing to hold, and no one cares about synagogues selling things, either. The Catholic Church, to which Charles Martel belonged, had run a vast amount of profitable businesses of their own, they even made a business of themselves in tithing and indulgences.

When it came to banking, it was not considered a sin in Christian Europe to take a usurious loan from a Jew, so many members of god-headed royal houses did so, and did so with the blessing of the church's authorities. What do you think it means to be Christian right now? I was always told it was just about following the words of Jesus, and spreading them at every opportunity, even if it meant your own suffering and death or that of your loved ones, and that the Bible is the first and last word on every subject. But encountering this political community, I'm having trouble reconciling the two things together.